CC Ep #5

Introduction

[00:00:44] Samantha Young: Hello, friends. Welcome to episode five. I am so happy that you are here. It is January 13th, Monday, and as I'm recording this, we [00:01:00] have the full moon in Cancer happening, very close to Mars retrograde in Cancer, and I will get into all of that in just a little bit.

[00:01:10] Samantha Young: I just wanted to talk, for a minute. I am coming in to this episode with admittedly a very heavy heart. I am feeling, as I'm sure many people are, a lot of grief and a lot of sadness and rage and helplessness around the fires that are currently going on in Los Angeles. If you don't know, I'm from Southern California. I was not born and raised in the city of Los Angeles, but I do call Long Beach my hometown, which is in the greater Los Angeles area. And yeah, I'm just really fucking sad y'all.

[00:01:58] Samantha Young: Many people have said [00:02:00] this, but it's a preventable tragedy. And more and more there are calls for accountability for these preventable tragedies that happen. This is not simply just climate change as an unstoppable force that's unfolding before our eyes. This is the result of choices. And bad ones.

[00:02:28] Samantha Young: And I've just been sitting a lot with that grief. It's been a really heavy start to the year. If you are in LA, I am sending my prayers to you every day that you may be safe and that your home may be safe. And if your home is not safe, I am so sorry. And I can only hope that there is a way that we can begin to rebuild.

[00:02:49] Samantha Young: And beyond that, I hope that there are ways that we can imagine a different future, a better future than this. One where [00:03:00] the people who are native to the land can have control of that land back and care for it and steward it the way it's supposed to be so that these things don't happen.

[00:03:10] Samantha Young: The grief is very heavy, and sometimes I really do question if just writing things, writing words, saying words, sharing ideas, inviting folks into the space and sharing them with you, I really do question if it's enough sometimes. And I do get down on myself sometimes about not doing more.

[00:03:36] Samantha Young: I just wanted to share that with you, if you're in a similar place mentally. Maybe you feel bad about what you have or haven't been able to do to contribute to the causes you care about, to build the world that you want to live in. It's all worth it. Every piece of effort that dismantles this world [00:04:00] and builds the next one, everything is worth it. Everything is worthwhile. Every word, every thought, every piece that you put out into the world, that I put out into the world, that champions and helps to imagine together the world that we want to live in... that's good work. It's important work. So don't forget that. Even though your actions may seem small, even though your efforts may feel very futile at times, there is a greater collective story unfolding here and your efforts are not in vain.

[00:04:40] Samantha Young: Everything matters. And as always, what's always important is connecting with each other and finding ways to connect authentically, finding ways to share these ideas, to create safe spaces to think and learn and process and move through the constant [00:05:00] psychic damage of living under capitalism.

[00:05:03] Samantha Young: So in the spirit of that, I have finally decided in 2025 to commit myself to Discord. If you aren't aware of what Discord is, it's an app for creating spaces, community spaces for connection, for sharing resources, sharing conversations. I've created my Discord channel. I've titled it the Cosmic Co Op, just like this podcast, because it's also a place for you, for the listener, to get in here! Come on down, get on in here.

[00:05:39] Samantha Young: Join the Co Op! We are here. There's about 30 of us in here right now, and I have a lot of plans for that space to make it not just a meeting place or place for idle chit chat, but for conversations and [00:06:00] collaboration for deep thinking for asking and answering hard questions in a more insulated space.

[00:06:07] Samantha Young: And it's also going to be where I hold the discussion groups for future classes that I hold. I'm still building it out, but we are up and functional and the link to the Discord, if you would like to join, will be in the show notes of this episode. I would love to have you in there.

[00:06:25] Samantha Young: We've been doing some co working, which is one of my favorite things to do online with others. It really helps me write and remain accountable to myself when it comes to my work, just to have other people to body double with sometimes silently.

[00:06:40] Samantha Young: And we also have what I'm trying to build, which is a library of resources in there. Just resources for us to share with each other that don't have to be shared on big public platforms that are owned by weird billionaires who are cozying up to even weirder [00:07:00] presidents. I wanted the Discord to be a space specifically for us.

[00:07:06] Samantha Young: And so in the spirit of this podcast and all of the collaboration that goes into this podcast, I just figured why not keep the name? This is the Cosmic Co Op. We're all members.

[00:07:17]

Astro Mission Log

[00:07:24] Samantha Young: So let's talk about astrology and this beautiful big full moon in Cancer, right next to Mars. Y'all, this shit sucks. I am not having a good time. Almost nobody I know is having a good time. This is what Mars retrograde feels like. It's fucking annoying and especially in Cancer, if you're feeling soggy and heavy and downtrodden and annoyed and irritable and aggravated and very [00:08:00] much like an open wound emotionally... friend, join the club. We've got jackets.

[00:08:08] Samantha Young: This is a really tender time and this full moon is highlighting, I think, a lot of pain that we collectively and individually are bringing into this year. There's a lot of just in the last five years, since COVID, there's so much collective grief to be processed that still has yet to be processed.

[00:08:28] Samantha Young: A lot of it has been suppressed, and I think it's seeping out, y'all. I think we are collectively waterlogged with grief, and the more and more that things keep happening, the more and more our climate grief compacts, the more and more our genocide grief just piles on top of itself, it's gotta come out somewhere. The dams are gonna burst. That water has gotta come out. And I'm feeling like there's a really big wave [00:09:00] of collective grief going on.

[00:09:01] Samantha Young: And just for me personally, I just entered an 8th house Taurus perfection year, and the 8th house is a place of grief, of loss, of stillness, of idleness, of stillness.

[00:09:14] Samantha Young: It's been very heavy, and no matter what house, what area of your chart this Mars retrograde might be occurring in, or maybe this full moon, there's always something to be taken from astrology in terms of what the dominant culture wants you to feel and wants you to be processing and what it doesn't.

[00:09:36] Samantha Young: And for our dominant culture, which is incredibly martial, anger is an acceptable emotion. Grief is not. So I think we're going to see a lot of expressions of grief that look and feel and sound a lot like anger. We already are seeing a lot of those and I wouldn't be surprised if the volume gets turned up on that.

[00:09:58] Samantha Young: I don't mean to start this [00:10:00] episode on such a bleak note, on such a heavy note, because there are many wonderful things to come. I am hosting a workshop next month on February 4th, and it's going to be all about subverting capitalism through the houses, all 12 houses in a birth chart. So we're going to take a walk through the houses, go around the circle, talk about the ways that dominant culture has assigned certain significations to these houses, the way that capitalism has co opted significations of the houses, and turn it on its head and give ourselves a different lens, a different way to use astrology as a tool for shifting our worldview towards something less based in consumerism and constant growth and self preservation above all else.

[00:10:51] Samantha Young: I'm very excited for this workshop. It's an idea that I have literally had for two years and it just finally decided that it [00:11:00] wanted to be born. We're doing it. Tickets are available on my website, thefinancialwitch.com. You can look under offerings and learn all about the workshop and sliding scale pricing of course is always available.

[00:11:13] Samantha Young: So I very much hope to see you there if you're somebody who's interested in taking a different approach to the houses and astrology.

[00:11:23] Samantha Young: And now, speaking of astrology, today's guest, this conversation was, it filled me with a Hope and solidarity. Ell the Aquarius is a colleague of mine, a fellow astrologer, though they're not consulting at the moment, and a creative force and a sex worker. And I'm really excited for you to hear the conversation that we had, talking about big questions that I've asked myself for a long time: is sex work [00:12:00] inherently anti capitalist or not? And what does charging your worth look like when your clientele is really wealthy? And a really great listener submission that I think we'll speak to a lot of people who are neurodivergent or disabled or chronically ill who run their own business or maybe you just had to give up a business maybe due to COVID or due to something else in your life.

[00:12:25] Samantha Young: The listener submission that we have in this episode today and the response that Ell and I gave really touched my heart in a very tender way, and tender is really the theme, I think, of this episode, of this month. So in the spirit of my Taurus eighth house, I would encourage you to get cozy, get a blanket, get something warm and cozy to drink, make yourself comfortable.

[00:12:50] Samantha Young: Maybe give yourself some sort of creative activity like coloring to do while you're listening to this and really get into the spirit of Ell and [00:13:00] I's conversation. We also touch on things like the 5th house and the 11th house, so again, if you are somebody who is interested in astrology, you're an astrologer, you just love learning about the houses, this is the episode for you. Let's get into the conversation.

[00:13:14]

Intro to Ell

[00:13:15] Samantha Young: I don't want to speak for your journey or anything, but what I know about you is obviously you're a very talented astrologer. You know a lot about asteroids. You gave me a really good asteroid reading last summer that I still think about all the time. It was really good. But you're also a visual artist, right? Where are you at right now on your journey?

[00:13:37] Ell: Love that, visual artist. At the moment I'm still somewhat engaging with my astrological practice, but it's taken on a different form. I'm doing more in-person stuff at the moment. I just recently started hosting a monthly social gathering in my city for folks who love [00:14:00] astrology, so that's been really fun. But mostly this year I've been redirecting my focus towards my sex work practice. And that's really been taking up the bulk of my time, work wise. And yeah, that's where I'm at with that. The astrology stuff has been more of a almost a hobby, which is totally different to what I've been used to for, the years since I started my professional practice with the astrology stuff. And yeah, I've been really enjoying it.

[00:14:32] Samantha Young: That's such an awesome pivot to make. And I feel like we often hear-- maybe it's just my bubble that I live in-- we often hear astrologers trying to go in the other direction: they wanted to make the astrology the main thing or the career, have it be the thing that pays their bills, but I love that you're somebody who is not afraid to pivot and that becomes part of a bigger [00:15:00] story for you. Do you feel personally like sex work is artistic for you? Is it an artistic practice?

[00:15:10] Ell: Yeah, for sure. So at the moment, my main sort of sex work outlet is through doing photo shoots, like being a model, and that feels a lot more creative for me. Especially when I compare it to in the past, when my sex work was just online doing like, OnlyFans and other stuff, it feels a lot more creative now because there's something physical to it, where I'm choosing outfits, I'm doing my hair and makeup, and I'm curating a certain vibe or mood or whatever for the shoot that we're going to be doing, and then I get to meet the photographer and it's like this in-person, real-life thing that's happening and that feels a lot more creative, and then obviously you get the photos back [00:16:00] afterwards if the photographer's gracious enough to share them with you.

[00:16:04] Ell: That's when it feels like art, is when I get to see photos of myself that I couldn't have taken by myself with my phone. Like they go above and beyond, they're next level, and I'm like, okay, yeah, this is really beautiful stuff and I love what I do.

[00:16:17] Ell: And it's just really exciting. Definitely this year since I've returned to sex work after taking a few years' break, definitely feels more like art to me now.

[00:16:27] Samantha Young: Oh my gosh. That's so beautiful. And I never thought about that either, but the fact that there's literally more humans involved when you're doing a photo shoot, versus what we would maybe call creating content, which has a different connotation of doing it alone or just doing it on your phone.

[00:16:44] Samantha Young: And that's so beautiful. Like you said, meeting the photographer, it makes me think of Chappell Roan. A lot of things make me think of Chappell Roan, but there's this interview clip I saw of her from, I don't know when, recently, this year, I think, and basically [00:17:00] the person was asking her how it felt to have her music blow up, right? How does it feel? And she was like, "I'm not surprised."

[00:17:08] Samantha Young: And that shook me for a second. Cause I was like, wow, the confidence. But then what she said was, "I'm not surprised because I grew up and I was always told that good art rises, and also I'm not surprised because there's 50 fucking people working on this with me. This is not just me. This is a group project and it's filled with really talented people doing great work. So of course." And her confidence was in that moment, I realized, was like, yeah it's about herself, but it was her confidence in the team that she has and the fact that Chappell Roan the business, the concept, it is a group project and there's something so human about that.

[00:17:49] Samantha Young: And what you said, too, just really made me think about how many more moving parts there are in a photo shoot, and how much more human element there is and the [00:18:00] teamwork that's required. I imagine it feels really nourishing to get to have community in that sense, like through your work, versus doing it alone.

[00:18:10] Ell: For sure. Because like for years, I've been a self-employed person selling some kind of service online, right? And it does get lonely. I love my alone time. I'd much rather work by myself at home than go out to work, working for someone else. I tried it, hate it. And so it works really well, but it does get lonely.

[00:18:34] Ell: The modeling stuff, especially, it doesn't feel like work for me. Sometimes it does, but on the whole, it doesn't really feel like work for me. And so someone like me, who has always struggled with work, always struggled with staying consistent and showing up to the job and all of this stuff-- I have ADHD and autism-- those things are just difficult. For the first time in my life, I feel like I've got this [00:19:00] vocation that I enjoy, I'm good at, I earn good money, and I'm not burning myself the fuck out doing it. And that's really exciting to me. So yeah, it's very nourishing.

[00:19:11] Samantha Young: Yeah, that's incredible. That's all anybody wants, I think, at the end of the day. I'm really in love with this idea that it is possible to have work that doesn't feel like work, and I love that that can be a possibility for you.

[00:19:24] Samantha Young: What are your thoughts on anti-capitalism? Is that something that you identify as? What's been your journey with that? And then I'm also curious about how that shows up for you as somebody who does sex work and works for themselves.

[00:19:39] Radicalization As A Rational Response

[00:19:39] Ell: Yeah I think I loosely would identify as anti-capitalist. I say "loosely" because I feel aversion to identifying as anything, because I do change so frequently.

[00:19:51] Samantha Young: You're an Aquarius.

[00:19:52] Ell: I'm an Aquarius, yeah. I struggle with labels. But yeah, if I had to describe my approach to work, [00:20:00] money, and just the life I lead in general, then yes, you would look at the way I lead my life and you'd be like yeah, it's very anti-capitalist.

[00:20:08] Ell: But I think it's not been intentional, right? It's not been an intentional journey where I started reading one day about anti-capitalism and was like, "wow, I really aspire to be like that." It happened by accident because I'm queer and neuro diverse and don't have a lot of money and...

[00:20:25] Samantha Young: Yeah.

[00:20:26] Ell: Yeah, so here I am, and yeah I'm anti-capitalist, but also it's not some heroic... I don't know, it's not some label I wear, almost virtually signaling it. I'm like yeah, of course I am, because I'm all of these things that cannot thrive under capitalism. And also by my nature, I am very anti-establishment and I get pissed off and angry when I feel like things aren't there and life is more difficult than it has to be.

[00:20:53] Ell: Those things make me align myself and identify with anti-capitalist values as well, and also my [00:21:00] care and compassion for those that I love, who I see struggling and just like the world in general and the state it's in. Those things also make me feel aligned with anti-capitalism.

[00:21:12] Samantha Young: I absolutely love the way you frame that. Like, it's not some heroic badge. It's just a rational conclusion to be anti-capitalist or rather, like you said, your very being is not compatible with capitalism, with this dominant system. So it's not being against capitalism, it's just simply not even being able to. I can't capitalism.

[00:21:36] Samantha Young: That's how I feel too. A lot of people will talk about their journey to being radicalized, and maybe it means that they went through something, one big thing that was really difficult, or maybe somebody just told them about a concept and they decided to read more into it, but I feel like your experience and also mine, to some degree, is more of the common experience.

[00:21:57] Samantha Young: Especially somebody [00:22:00] who-- yeah, autistic, ADHD, really any type of neurodivergent-- I could talk for a whole hour about the term "neurodivergent". What are we diverging from exactly, and what is neurotypical? It's just a set of expectations, and those expectations on our behavior are really just byproducts of capitalism, right? Cause the neurotypical expectation is that you can go to work 40 hours a week, apparently, and have that level of executive functioning all the time. And it's just not the case, I think, for most people.

[00:22:33] Samantha Young: It also makes sense that it's not so much as a label, it's just just a way of being, like my friend Kelsey Tortorice calls it exo-capitalism, which I like too. It's outside of. Nobody's outside of capitalism, we still have to live within it, but you take more of an observer stance. You start to pull away and observe how capitalism works. At least that's what happened with me, I think.

[00:22:58] Ell: Engaging with it more [00:23:00] intentionally, right? Because once you start clocking all these insidious ways that capitalism poisons you, you have to be really mindful when as you said, we all have to engage with it. We have to earn money. Our whole way of being is structured around it. But I think it's important to be intentional about how you're engaging so that you're retaining some sense of boundary around yourself, so that you're not being subtly influenced in these ways that will make you feel terrible about yourself if you're not aware of it.

[00:23:35] Samantha Young: Yeah, absolutely, especially when it gets internalized. And most people I think don't realize how much of capitalism's expectations we have internalized, which is nobody's fault. That's how it works. We're indoctrinated into capitalism, but we're also coerced into it because the alternative is literally just death. It's isolation and eventually just death. I so appreciate your point of view on [00:24:00] that.

Is Sex Work Anti-Capitalist?

[00:24:00] Samantha Young: This is a spicy question, but I ask myself all the time: do you feel like being a sex worker is anti-capitalist or does it feel like you're playing your role within capitalism, just as another job to you?

[00:24:19] Ell: Both. Definitely both. Always both. I think it's one of the jobs where I feel most comfortable with engaging with capitalism, right? Because my clientele are usually older white men who have quite a lot of money, and I experienced basically no guilt or that icky feeling around charging for your services, right? I don't experience that as a sex worker because of who my clientele are and because of my awareness around wealth disparity and stuff like that.

[00:24:56] Ell: But my clientele as a sex worker, I feel [00:25:00] more than comfortable charging enough money for me to be comfortable. Whereas my clientele as an astrologer, for example, are folks like me, who are queer, neurodivergent marginalized, and categorically, because of those ways that they're marginalized, they tend to earn less money, right? It's just harder to get by and earn enough money, and so I experience a lot of challenges around: I want to earn enough to live, but I also don't want to overcharge, and I can only work so many hours because of my own capacity to work, but if I'm to only work those hours and earn enough, that means I need to charge more, and it just gets messy.

[00:25:40] Ell: So yeah, I'd say sex work allows me to engage with capitalism in, in quite a refreshing way for someone like me who feels like I've always existed on the outside of things. I feel like I'm engaging with the world of work in this way where I'm like, "oh, this is how it's meant to be."

[00:25:58] Ell: Like, you do your job and you [00:26:00] get paid well, and you feel supported and comfortable. Wow. And then I'm like, oh, but it's also sex work, but I'm also like in an industry where it is existing on the fringes and it's not very societally except accepted. And it does put me at a disadvantage in many ways, socially speaking. And even when it comes to I don't know, if you were trying to like rent somewhere and your landlord being funny with it, there's all these different ways that being a sex worker can negatively impact you.

[00:26:32] Ell: And yeah, it's a weird mix of both. Like on the one hand, the trade aspect of it. Like, here's the service and here's the pay. Yeah. That is great. And then obviously all the kind of less fortunate baggage that can come with being a sex worker makes it also feel very fringy at the same time.

[00:26:53] Samantha Young: Yeah. I love that you use the word "fringe" because I definitely experienced that feeling as well [00:27:00] when I was a sex worker. The type of sex work that I was doing when I was being a sugar baby, where you're going out into the world with these men, like into public, and seeing the spaces that they have access to, the ways that the world interacts with them. That type of fringe experience was always deeply fascinating to me. It was honestly probably part of why I did it. Like, yes, the money, and yes, I needed to survive and all that, but I was so fascinated by being able to peek into I don't know, what really felt like the underbelly of capitalism sometimes.

[00:27:37] Samantha Young: And occasionally, yeah, like you said there's unfortunate baggage that comes with that, but in that fringe aspect where, like you said, the mechanics of work can be so deeply fulfilling; like you said, getting paid well and getting to charge what your work is worth and feel good about that, and then also being able to go out and live your life [00:28:00] outside of work, for the most part.

[00:28:02] Samantha Young: That's hard when your main clientele feels like what is the pinnacle of a capitalist system, right? A white man with a bunch of money and catering to their needs or catering to their desires.

[00:28:15] Samantha Young: But the material result for you is a life well lived, right? So it's really murky. I just I think you hit the nail on the head so so appropriately with the inner conflict that can come with sex work. And it really challenges capitalism's definitions, I think, of what is labor and what is even worth? How do you determine what somebody's labor is worth?

"Charge Your Worth"

[00:28:42] Samantha Young: I feel like the conclusion that I'm starting to reach, honestly, with that question, is: how much somebody's labor is worth is however much somebody, the person hiring them is willing to pay, because that's how capitalism works. There's all these arguments all the time back and forth about who, which jobs deserve to [00:29:00] get paid how much? And yes, minimum wage is too low, but at the same time, should this job get paid as much as this job? And how much are they worth? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're asking the wrong questions.

[00:29:11] Samantha Young: I'm starting to feel like the question is how much is the employer willing to pay or how much is the employer able to pay? Because in sex work, we know how much our clients are able to pay, right? And then we take that, we capitalize on that and we use that to make a living. But when it comes to the other side of it with employment and stuff, people are asking, where's the money going to come from? It comes from the employers, it comes from these corporations and they have the ability to pay people. They have the money there. The money is there. It's going into the CEO's pocket every hour when it should be going into, your frontline workers. So I don't know, this parallel just seems pertinent right now because people getting paid with their worth is such a... that question of worth is just so big and nebulous.

[00:29:58] Ell: It is. I was literally watching [00:30:00] a video today, I was doing research for my OnlyFans and it was talking about what prices on average people are charging for their content, et cetera. And something you constantly hear in the sex work world and pretty much anywhere where you're providing services for people it's, "Yeah, charge your worth. Charge what you're worth. Don't undermine your worth. Don't charge too little," you hear it constantly.

[00:30:24] Ell: And I've always generally been like yeah that's good advice. Don't undersell yourself because you'll burn out. But, I watched this video today and it was, I think, Alanah Cole on YouTube, and she was saying like, your prices that you charge aren't actually really reflective of your worth, they're just a price that you're putting on something. And I don't know, it just really shifted something in my brain, because I take things very literally, right? So if I'm charging what I'm worth, okay, I'll charge a million dollars for one ten minute video because I truly think I'm worth that, okay? If I'm charging what I'm worth, that means I'm charging a lot, right? [00:31:00] No, maybe it's a better business model to charge competitive prices, whilst also in the mind telling yourself "this is not a number that is directly equating to my worth," because you cannot put a price on your worth as a human being.

[00:31:20] Ell: It was just so refreshing to hear a different narrative, right? Other than "charge your worth," what does that even mean? And how is that helpful for people trying to make money by selling services or people who own their own businesses or whatever? Yes, know your worth, and also do your market research and know what is a good price.

[00:31:38] Ell: that's

[00:31:38] Samantha Young: Yeah. Yeah. Literally. I was about to say that.

[00:31:41] Ell: Yeah.

[00:31:43] Samantha Young: Do your research. Don't charge what your work is worth, charge what is reasonable for the product that you're selling. When I created my course, I have never built and sold a course online before. So I did some [00:32:00] Googling. I did some research, like what does an eight-week, self-paced, online course typically run in this online market? And so I ended up finding a range and then because my brand is anti-capitalist and because I truly believe that I want my work to be accessible, I placed the price on the lowest end of that range. That's what made sense to me.

[00:32:24] Samantha Young: I really feel like we should go back to maybe having it be a bit more of a logical process versus an emotional process, because it truly is. Capitalism is a numbers game at the end of the day. There's a lot of emotions wrapped up in those numbers, and obviously humans have a lot of feelings about money. So I'm not saying to stop feeling things about money, but there are times and places where it makes more sense to just sit down and be logical. Just crunch the numbers. What do you actually need? What's reasonable? What's feasible?

[00:32:57] Samantha Young: Just crunch the numbers. Remove your emotions [00:33:00] for an hour. And then you can feel bring them back, but you gotta put them on hold or something. It's something I see causing people a lot of turmoil, especially in astrology and tarot and those reading-based, service-based, sector that you and I have worked in.

[00:33:16] Samantha Young: It's a lot of like hand wringing, am I charging too much and being greedy and my charging too little and undermining, the science of astrology or something? Like, it doesn't have to actually mean anything. It doesn't have to mean that at all. It can just mean this is the price that I need to pay my bills.

[00:33:36] Ell: Yeah, and as you said earlier, what is a person willing to charge, right? That is also a factor of how much you should charge. If your audience are of a demographic where across the board they're wealthier, living more comfortable lives, have more disposable income, then charge more because you will make the money still.

[00:33:58] Ell: If the product you're trying [00:34:00] to sell is directed at people who, across the board, earn less money, then don't charge a shit ton of money That doesn't make sense. Looking at, who's my customer? Who's my clientele? What are their general life circumstances? What is reasonable? And then, if it is in situations where it's your employer or it's someone who's employing you to do a service and you know that this person has the means to pay you well, definitely charge more.

[00:34:29] Ell: If someone asks me for a really specific video or my OnlyFans, that are outright asking me for content, I will charge them a bit more than if I was to just send out that video as a blanket, mass message to whoever wants it. If someone's coming to me asking specifically for it, I charge a little bit more because I know they're going to pay it because they're seeking that.

[00:34:50] Ell: So yeah, it fluxes and it changes depending on so many different things and I think really at the base of that it's like we need to, I guess, be a little [00:35:00] bit more discerning around, what does it really mean when we're equating money to our worth and stuff like that.

[00:35:08] Samantha Young: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Having a little more... I think caution is maybe the word I'm looking for. Having a little more caution around equating money to work or certain jobs to worth. Arguing about what something should be paid is less useful to me than saying, what are the needs of the person doing the job? And also, yeah, what is the person paying them willing to pay? Because that removes all of these nebulous questions about worth, and it really just gets down to what's needed and what's available.

[00:35:47] Samantha Young: I'm feeling like that type of thinking... I don't know. I'm hoping that maybe Saturn in Aries will bring a little bit more of that. It's toning down the emotionality of certain [00:36:00] things, and I think worth and money and capitalism is one of those things. I'm curious if Saturn in Aries will bring in an era where we're thinking less emotionally and more In that Martial sense of what's immediate and urgent and needed and available and what can be put into action right now, in terms of money. It'll be interesting to see.

[00:36:20] Ell: For sure.

Listener Submission

[00:36:21] Samantha Young: I think this is probably a good time to get into this listener question. I'm glad that you wanted to respond to this one, because when I first got it, I thought that it might be a good one for us to answer together, or at least just discuss because I don't claim to have all the answers.

[00:36:37] Samantha Young: But our anonymous listener submission for this episode is from somebody who says, "I am a queer, non-binary, disabled, Autistic and ADHD-riddled adult. I am a self-taught digital artist, and before my current chronic illnesses, I had a successful Etsy shop that sold stationary [00:37:00] and stickers. I no longer have the spoons to run my shop with packing orders, running social media and things like that, and I have no idea how to become an artist for hire or translate these skills into something else. How would you recommend a disabled and neurodivergent person like myself find opportunities as an artist?"

[00:37:20] Samantha Young: First of all, I want to say my heart goes out to this person, because it's so hard to experience a shift in your ability like that, in your capacity.

[00:37:32] Ell: Yeah, my first immediate thought or feeling I get when I hear this and read this is grief, that it sucks not being able to do, especially work that you love, or that I assume this person loves, right? It fucking sucks. Yeah. Grief is huge, and these phases of life where we feel we're hitting our limit.

[00:37:52] Samantha Young: Yeah. I feel that grief, and there's many layers to it. In the days leading up to this, thinking about this question and tossing it around in my [00:38:00] head, I was thinking about what we were just talking about: pricing based on survival and "don't charge your worth," but on the more emotional side, what would success-- when you're neurodivergent, when you're chronically ill, when you're disabled, you automatically are in that other category, right? You're not compatible with capitalism. The way your body and brain functions is not the way capitalism would expect it to function, right? To show up and produce at that level. You're already existing outside of capitalism.

Capitalist Ideas of Success

[00:38:34] Samantha Young: And so one thing that we have to do when we go through these changes is also, I think, interrogate what our ideas of success are or have been, and how much those ideas have been perhaps shaped by capitalism, and to do that first so that you then can change it, can rewrite what success would feel like to you. Because what I [00:39:00] sense in this person, part of the grief was like, "I was at a point that felt at least moderately successful," right? There were orders to be packed. Business was happening. There was a level of success that was being approached or being reached, and now it seems maybe impossible to get back to that.

[00:39:17] Samantha Young: And I think that part of the lens here with disability is that a lot of the time, there is no going back to whatever "before" time, right? I think about this a lot with my autism and the process of autistic burnout and recovering from that and learning how to unmask over the last four to five years. I always thought, "Once this burnout passes and I just get the right tools in place, then I can go back to doing things at the level I was doing them before. Eventually I'll get my stamina back, right? I'll just do it differently. It'll be me, it'll be autistic me, but I'll have my stamina back."

[00:39:57] Samantha Young: no, because doing things at that level is [00:40:00] what led me to the autistic burnout in the first place. You don't get to go back. And so what success and what thriving looks-- it has also has to change along with it. I used to think that my goal was to be a millionaire and that was success to me. That was an idea of success that capitalism gave to me. I actually don't need or want to be a millionaire to feel like I'm happy and financially stable, right? I no longer need that, but it took some interrogating.

[00:40:30] Ell: Yeah. I think it's interesting, as well, that this person has used the word success in their submission. They said, "I had a successful Etsy shop." And so I invite this person to reflect and to, I don't know, write down or just get familiar with: what was it about how you were working and what was happening as a result of that? What about that translated as success to you? And then I guess, yeah, get honest [00:41:00] around, is there anything around that maybe is my conditioning, like my capitalist conditioning and any other layers of conditioning that this person has experienced that is maybe painting their lens of success, but then also looking at it and establishing like, what part truly genuinely did feel good?

[00:41:19] Ell: Maybe this person had enough money to spend more time with their friends and that was super fulfilling to them, and that is a key component of success for this person. So yeah, the fact that you've had this experience of success is really valuable. Because you can do both of these things: you can pick apart the success conditioning that may be unhelpful moving forward, but you've also now got good reference as to some of the things that really feel good to you. Maybe leaning your focus more towards those things as you're moving forward.

[00:41:55] Ell: Also, this experience that you've had running your store is [00:42:00] invaluable. I've been talking throughout this podcast about my astrology practice and then going back to my sex work practice, and I took breaks. I hit burnout and I took breaks, and coming back to things that I put down for a while, I came back to something that wasn't like completely starting afresh. I came back to something where there was some foundation already laid. I had knowledge. I had some kind of loose, distant clientele who I could return back to. The work you have done has not been in vain. You've learned a lot. You've achieved a lot. You said there is a foundation there that you can in some sense return back to.

[00:42:39] Ell: And then equally, as Sam said, it's making sure you're aware that the thing you're trying to return back to is not surely motivated by the capitalist idea of what success is.

[00:42:50] Samantha Young: Absolutely. That is such an important distinction to make that, yeah, the work that you did, the foundation that you established with your Etsy [00:43:00] shop when it was successful is not just obliterated now. It's not for nothing. It's not in vain, like you said, and there are skills to be taken out of that.

[00:43:14] Samantha Young: And sometimes there can even be a client base that maybe will follow you perhaps, or maybe not even follow you, but like you said, you can return to. That's something that has only just started to make sense and be true for me post-Saturn return is oh, all of those years that I thought that I was wasting, not doing X, Y, Z, not doing this with my life. They were absent of things that I wanted, yes, that is true, but they weren't wasted because now in my early thirties, I'm seeing where threads, things that I've sat down, I get to pick up again, right? Or old threads that I thought were completely gone have get to come [00:44:00] back.

[00:44:00] Samantha Young: Part of that is just the passage of time, and part of it is having a lens of self compassion and a lens of, what skills do I have? Because every time you do anything for any amount of time, you're building skills, whether you realize it or not, whether you're intentionally trying to build a skill or not, you are building them, and it might take time for them to become apparent, but I think, to touch on the question part of it and the opportunities part, I don't work in the art world. I don't know anything about working as an artist, but what I do know is about these things that happen when you are coming out of, or perhaps are still in the midst of recovering from, things like autistic burnout or just recovering from capitalist burnout.

Importance of Community for Disabled Folks

[00:44:48] Samantha Young: Honestly, as a disabled person, as a neurodivergent person, some part of the opportunities are going to come from sharing what [00:45:00] you do know and what you do have and just sharing it. That's literally what it is. It sounds cliche: at the end of the day, it does go back to your community.

[00:45:07] Samantha Young: It does go back to, like you said, it can be a client base and it can also just be a community, just any community that you're a part of-- your friends, any niche interests you have, maybe there's other artists that you know, either online or locally. It starts there. It starts with connecting to other people who are like you.

[00:45:29] Samantha Young: For a long time, I thought that the way to have opportunities presented to me was just to be really exceptional. I was like, "I just have to do something. I just have to do things really great. I just have to just perform at a really high level and opportunities will come to me," and they did, but they came to me so much faster and in so much greater volume when I just started networking and talking to people, and not in some weird, "here's my business card" kind of way.

[00:45:56] Samantha Young: I'm talking about in the ways that are accessible to me as [00:46:00] a disabled person, as a stay at home mom, right? For me, it's like hopping on a one hour intentional networking call, while my kid is watching Bluey and I'm doing what I can, and I made three or four connections out of that.

[00:46:16] Samantha Young: Again, it doesn't have to be the capitalist version. It doesn't have to be the hardcore, super executive functioning version of networking. It can be the spoonie version of that, it can be hopping in a Zoom for an hour with your mic and your camera turned off and you're just body doubling, co-working with other people, and they have your name and you're in their sphere. They get used to seeing your face and your name around, whatever it is. That's how you build community-- at least, how I build community as a disabled person who is frequently in my house. That's what's accessible to me, so I'm not saying that's exactly what's going to work for this person or for everybody.

[00:46:58] Samantha Young: The accessibility [00:47:00] frame applies universally here. It applies when you're talking about charging for your prices. It also applies if you want more opportunities, and networking is really a great way to get those opportunities in your lap. You don't have to do it the capitalist way. You can do it your way.

Connectivity Begets Creation

[00:47:19] Ell: Yeah, and I really like this because you're like evoking the archetype of Venus when you're collaborating and connecting with others, and this is a planet that also rules over artistry, right? And then also the Sun, I associate the Sun with creativity. The Sun exists at the center of fruit.

[00:47:39] Ell: And then we're talking about networking for opportunities and stuff, and I think about Jupiter and, Jupiter has its joy in the 11th house of social networks and communities. And so yeah, I think this is a really good piece of advice from Sam is to lean into this, the spirit of collaboration and connection as [00:48:00] a means to support your your work and your purpose as an artist.

[00:48:06] Ell: You can also look at your fifth house in your birth chart and see if the sign that's placed there and any planets that are placed there can give you any more hints or clues towards the kinds of people or environments that would be supportive for you as an artist, also the ruler of the fifth house.

[00:48:23] Ell: I definitely think connection and community and collaboration are such important things for an artist to prioritize because that's where your inspiration comes from. It's where your commissions come from. It's where your next steps come from. It all gets created within that collaborative space, whether it's an intentional sitting down to plan something creative with another person, or it's just going to a coffee hangout with people you really love and care about, and one of them saying something that accidentally sparks an idea for your next greatest piece of [00:49:00] work, you know? It just happens this way when we connect with others.

[00:49:05] Ell: So yeah, I think doing that is very important and also, you know carrying that through into the more logistic side of business. In this submission you've mentioned how you no longer have the spoons to run your shop, packing orders, social media, etc. Really relate to that. I really struggle with the logistic side of business as well. And when you're doing it all yourself, it's really difficult to keep that momentum going. It's very easy to burn out. So if it's doable, if you did want to try this endeavor again-- which I would encourage by the way, it's okay that you have to put it down and I think things could work differently after some time away-- but maybe it would be worth leaning into the spirit of collaboration and outsourcing some jobs that you really struggle with, like social media management or packing orders, just finding ways that others can help, whether it's you're directly paying [00:50:00] someone to manage your social pages or you're asking a friend to come around and body double whilst you pack orders.

[00:50:05] Ell: I think it's okay that we hit these limitations, especially as self-employed business owners who are neurodivergent and struggling to do it all ourselves. Find ways that people can come in and help. You don't have to do it all on your own. It doesn't make you a shit business owner that obviously there are going to be probably many parts of running a business you're not great at, and that's normal and okay.

[00:50:29] Samantha Young: Yeah, the 5th house-11th house connection is so crucial here and I love that you brought it up. There's a reason why Venus rejoices in the 5th, Jupiter rejoices in the 11th. When we embody the 5th house, it's a spark of creativity and I love how you said it. It can literally just be one thing that a friend says to you offhandedly which inspires you. That's the beauty of being an artist, right? But we need to sometimes intentionally place ourselves in places, give ourselves opportunities to get that inspiration. [00:51:00] So the 5th house is excellent for that.

[00:51:04] Samantha Young: And then the 11th house too, I love that you brought up because I've always associated the Internet with the 11th house, or just like social media in general. It is a tool that we have, especially as spoonies or people who are disabled, or maybe you're just really COVID conscious and you still spend a lot of time in your house.

[00:51:23] Samantha Young: The internet is what we have. The internet is a social place. It's always been that for me. It could be because my moon's in my 11th house. I'm just always considered the Internet a place to hang out. So maybe that's why these things come easily to me, like just hanging out with complete strangers on Zoom.

[00:51:43] Samantha Young: And that's the thing that I do. And not everybody's up for that. Not everybody's an extroverted autistic the way that I am, but there are ways. Yeah. I just think the important thing that both Ell and I have been saying in here is that there are ways to do it your own way [00:52:00] and just because you're doing it outside of the typical way or what's expected or like the normal capitalist way, just because you're doing it outside of those expectations does not mean it's worse or not as good. It's literally just different. And yeah, there are disabled spoonie folks who run businesses and they're not trying to hit huge goals and sell more than the last month, every single month, because that's what capitalism is. You can just identify what your baseline of success or stability for your business is and say, if I even do 500 bucks a month in sales then that's good enough for me.

[00:52:40] Samantha Young: Allowing things to be good enough is, I think, a really helpful balm, especially when you're navigating capitalism and disability and neurodivergence at the same time. We have to sometimes just let things be good enough and trust, like you said, that [00:53:00] you can pick things back up, too. Just because we set something down doesn't mean we're giving up, that it's gone forever. It's just setting down for now.

[00:53:08] Samantha Young: That's also a really beautiful part of the way I experience Autism and ADHD together. I used to think of it as such a weakness that I get really deep into things and then forget about them for years, and then I go back and I jump around and stuff. I used to think of that as such a weakness.

[00:53:26] Samantha Young: I used to think "Oh my God, if I could just focus on one thing for any amount of time I could be successful," blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, cause I couldn't sit down and finish a college degree because it was too much of just learning about one thing, and I wanted to hop around.

[00:53:41] Samantha Young: But now again, with the passage of time and just life experience, realizing that, yeah, the things you've sat down can totally be picked back up again. There's no shame in that whatsoever. And I think if you feel shame about that's totally normal. But that shame doesn't do anything [00:54:00] for you. We can part ways with it.

[00:54:01] Pluto In Aquarius: Technological Boon

[00:54:01] Ell: Think what you're saying there as well about social media in general, it's reminding me of the fact that we now have Pluto in Aquarius, and I really think that technology-- you know, like the Internet and social media and apps and online stores and these kinds of things-- I really think that those sort of tech-based things are going to put some of the power back in the hands of the everyday folks, right?

[00:54:33] Ell: And I think that is especially beneficial for those of us who struggle to do typical forms of labor, because you do have the chance of earning more money and stuff like that with the help of technology and social media. Like maybe it's apps that help you automate certain things, or you have an online shop instead of having to rent out an actual, physical store.

[00:54:59] Ell: I really think the [00:55:00] ways that technology can help that, especially in capitalism, like earning money and stuff like that. I think it's really going to be a big focus throughout Pluto and Aquarius. And this is why I'm in favor for this person trying again with the shop, right? I think it's a great time to be a self-employed business owner who's offering stuff online. I think there's a lot of potential to earn more money than you might otherwise be able to earn as a disabled person who, who can't engage with the typical forms of labor. Just keeping an eye out for the opportunities that social media apps, et cetera, can offer you and allowing those things to help you as well. That can be really transformative.

[00:55:50] Samantha Young: Yeah, absolutely. I do tend to a bit towards more pessimism, and I've been honestly thinking very pessimistically a lot about Pluto [00:56:00] in Aquarius, but that is a really good point. For disabled folks, for neurodivergent folks, it's always going to be harder than the average person for us to make money and survive in capitalism, that's just the truth. And at the same time, I think it also has never been easier.

[00:56:19] Samantha Young: Like you said, as a person who can't work a quote unquote "normal" job is-- to make money online, you don't have to rent a physical store to sell physical things. That's incredible. That wasn't even a thing, that wasn't a reality even 30 years ago, that's really incredible.

[00:56:35] Samantha Young: And yeah, it is more accessible than it has ever been to make money online. It still comes with trade offs, no, no job is a hundred percent easy, but I do love that outlook that you have. I've been trying to get into more of more automation lately, especially for my business on like the backend stuff, and it truly is-- when it works out, when I see an automation working correctly, [00:57:00] I could cry because it's so beautiful.

[00:57:03] Ell: And it takes away so much of, that's where I get so stuck, right? It's all the back end, the admin stuff, the and like having to sit on my fucking laptop and do these really tedious things. Like, I really struggle with it and I take a really long time to do something that most people would probably take like an hour, right?

[00:57:25] Ell: And I do really feel this sense of moving forward now is like Pluto in Aquarius, it really is time to start leaning into technology and automation, and it can make our lives in many ways exponentially easier, freeing up a lot of our time, which literally equates to more money if you are someone who's selling a service, because you need your time to deliver that service. So it's obviously scary times, but also it's exciting and there's a lot of potential [00:58:00] there.

[00:58:00] Samantha Young: Yeah. There's a ton of potential. I love that perspective. I'm going to be keeping that close to my heart. I was like searching for something in Pluto and Aquarius to give me some kind of hope and I was feeling bleak for a minute. So this makes me feel better. I think it was a great response, just a collective response and a good conversation to have in general, because I know that there are so many other people who are probably going through something very similar to this as well. I don't think this is unique by any means.

[00:58:32] Samantha Young: A lot of people had to change the way they did their businesses with COVID. Some people became disabled due to COVID. So I know that it's probably a very common dilemma that a lot of folks are experiencing. So I hope that can be a balm. Yeah.

Using Astrology To Honor Your Limits

[00:58:47] Ell: It's hard out here. The other thing I wanted to mention as a way we can utilize astrology to help us with honoring your limits and stuff like that, is you can use predictive methods to [00:59:00] see when you're you're naturally going to be inclined to want more rest anyway, and maybe prioritizing those windows of time as rest periods rather than trying to power through.

[00:59:12] Ell: Maybe it's more likely that you burnout during those times. I'm thinking like, I don't know, the first fucking four or five months of 2025, Mars is going to be retrograde and in Cancer, moving really slowly, all of that. Like 2025 is gonna start off pretty slow and knowing that, having awareness of that can give you a sense of okay, maybe for the first half of the year, I do more of the like back end, behind the scenes stuff that's not so dependent on the physical exertion of my labor, because Mars is speaking to that kind of physical exertion, right?

[00:59:48] Ell: And then maybe once Mars has picked up some pace, that's when all the foundational work that I've done behind the scenes can really come into full force and bonus, I'm going to have more physical energy [01:00:00] at that time, or it's more likely that I will.

[01:00:02] Ell: So looking at those things can be really helpful and factoring in things like annual perfections and looking at your time lord, seeing what your time lord's doing throughout the year to come, and trying to gauge the speeds of it and when it's clashing with malefics and when you're more likely to run into obstacles and stuff, and trying to find those good windows of times where things are working in order, things are moving well and trying to utilize those windows of time.

[01:00:31] Ell: Because you are more likely to have the spoons and the energy to do things more effectively then. Obviously this isn't 100%, it's not going to play out that way, like 100 percent accurately all the time, but it's something we can consider. And I also like looking at zodiacal releasing in a similar way and looking at things like when I'm more likely to run into windows of success and visibility and really prioritizing the windows of time [01:01:00] leading up to those periods of heightened success and visibility.

[01:01:04] Ell: And, really prioritizing again, the foundational sort of prep work leading up to those windows of visibility. Then I can make the most of it. So yeah there's a little-- especially predictive astrology, I think can help to get a gauge of okay, maybe looking at the year ish to come, what is the astrology saying about the way my energy is moving and how can I let that kind of give me the permission to, during some parts of the year, do the backend stuff, do the less labor intensive stuff? And during other parts of the year, really lean into the energy that you're more likely to have with you at that time.

[01:01:47] Ell: I don't know if you dabble with this, Sam or if you've had any success with kind of using astrology to help direct your energy output?

[01:01:55] Samantha Young: It's only just this year that I started doing more of the predictive stuff, like you [01:02:00] talked about. For a while I was just living through the transits and just like letting them affect me, which, I think that's an important part of being an astrologer too, but it was really just this year. And I love that you brought in these different techniques because there's so many techniques you can use, but also because layering them, I think, helps a lot too.

[01:02:23] Samantha Young: This is a kind of thing where yes, if you want to book a reading with an astrologer they'll be really specific with you. They'll talk about your chart and what's really specific. But if you just want to take these and make it actionable for yourself, it's. It doesn't have to be complicated. In astrology, we have a concept called layers of testimony, which is if you're using different techniques, say, you're tracking the moons.

[01:02:46] Samantha Young: The moon is void, and then at the same time, the moon happens to be your timelord during this year. Then you're going to know that when the moon is void, this is going to be one of those periods of reduced [01:03:00] productivity, perhaps, or when the moon becomes eclipsed, that's going to be a time when maybe you're gonna feel a bit off-center or something like that.

[01:03:08] Samantha Young: But yeah, I've started doing that this year because my birthday is right next to the new year, so every new year I get a new timelord and it lines up. So Mars has been my time lord this year and oh my god, I've learned so much about Mars, but I looked ahead to notice that, oh my gosh, at the end of the year, Mars is going to station retrograde at six degrees of Leo. My moon in my 11th house is at eight degrees of Leo. So I was like, maybe early December is gonna be maybe a little rough for me. I don't know how, I don't know in what ways, but I pinned it because Mars also-- this is just me talking through my process-- Mars also rules my second house, which is about money.

[01:03:54] Samantha Young: So I pay closer attention to Mars when it comes to my money. And so what [01:04:00] I noticed was interesting was when Mars was stationing retrograde at the beginning of December, very close to my moon, Mars was in my 11th house and my visibility online was increasing but at the same time, because Mars was stationing in such a fiery agitated sign, I've had this loud ass construction sounds outside my house, which made it harder for me to do my work. So it was this big Martian thing going on right outside my window, and it was impeding upon literally the 11th house stuff that I'm trying to do in here in my bedroom, while Mars is in my 11th house, while Mars is my time Lord.

[01:04:40] Samantha Young: That's just kind of an example of how these things play out on a very personal level. So it is something that, yeah, you can have an astrologer walk you through, but even just really simple stuff like when the moon's in your 12th house, that happens every month. And in the 12th house, maybe you [01:05:00] schedule that for the days when you don't do any like any face-to-face work with people, that kind of stuff.

[01:05:06] Ell: That also really reminds me of how important it is, if you're someone who menstruates or has a hormonal cycle please pay attention because that is going to have such a huge impact on your capacity to perform any kind of labor, whether it's mental or physical. Especially for neurodivergent people, it can be extra dysregulating. I've been doing a ton of research this year. I think part of my Mars Perfection Year has been about just learning about the menstrual cycle and just blood is just--

[01:05:43] Samantha Young: So much blood.

[01:05:44] Ell: Theme of the year.

[01:05:45] Samantha Young: There's been a lot of blood in my year too.

[01:05:48] Ell: And yeah, I've really learned how my menstrual cycle, or my hormonal cycle, uniquely impacts me as a neurodivergent person. The executive functioning that I [01:06:00] already struggle with completely goes out the fucking window like the week before my period is due, right? I have certain times every single month where I know there's certain tasks I'm gonna struggle to do, and that really helps me to build my schedule in a way that is effective for me.

[01:06:18] Ell: This is why also being a self-employed person who runs your own shop or has some kind of service that you're selling, you get to play around with your schedule in this way. You get to lean into the certain windows of time where you can do this certain type of task and then schedule the other times with certain types of tasks for other times and you really, yeah, get to fine tune it and that is a huge privilege and I really, really encourage it, if they have a hormonal cycle, to do some research and pay attention to how that may be impacting their capacity to perform these different kinds of labor.

[01:06:58] Samantha Young: Yeah. I think the beautiful thing [01:07:00] about both astrology and menstrual cycles is that they're very trackable. And if you're somebody who's really into finding patterns, then it could be something that is also maybe even enjoyable for you to locate these patterns and notice.

[01:07:16] Samantha Young: I'm like, if I see like the moon is in Virgo and it's the week before my period, I will not be talking to anybody. I will not be socializing. I will not be podcasting. I will be in my room just being silent. It's important to know those things about yourself.

[01:07:32] Advocating For Yourself In Business

[01:07:32] Samantha Young: I hope that we've been able to speak to other neurodivergent business owners and even just people who, even if you don't own your own business and you do work a job and your schedule maybe is not as much within your control, right? There's still ways that these can be applied, these astrological concepts that we're talking about.

[01:07:55] Samantha Young: You can't call out of work because the moon's void. You can't do it. I've tried and it doesn't [01:08:00] work. But, you can, if you know that perhaps a rough period is coming up for you and you have to work, then you schedule in your after and before work time to be extra nourishing.

[01:08:10] Samantha Young: This is all, I think, just coming back to what I feel like has been a theme that's been emerging for me, talking to people specifically who are into business and neurodivergence and anti-capitalism, is that it forces you to advocate for yourself in ways that-- all of these in a combination, these all separately force you to advocate for yourself in different ways. And then when you bring it together, it's a lifelong journey, because self advocacy is hard, does not come easily, and the more you do it, the more things around you change, because perhaps you realize there were areas where you weren't advocating enough.

[01:08:52] Ell: Yeah. And I think when you say "advocate for yourself," it evokes that sense of you're advocating for yourself in the context [01:09:00] of a conversation with another person, right? But I think, especially if you're like a self-employed business owner, you have to advocate for yourself to yourself as well, because there are so many ways that you will unknowingly be undermining yourself because you've been raised in a capitalist system and because of, I don't know, any of your familial conditioning that has taught you various different things about your worth. And also if you're a neurodivergent-- Oh my god, especially the ADHD.

[01:09:30] Ell: There are so many ways that you shoot yourself in your own foot. That's just part of having ADHD, and you do have to advocate for yourself. This is why it's so important to know yourself, know your limits, know your habits, your behaviors and be firm and be like, okay, if I'm going to show up and work, I need to earn this money. If I'm going to do the work that's necessary, I know I need to get a good night's sleep, eat the certain types of foods that give [01:10:00] me enough energy, I need to make sure I'm resting enough there's all these different things that you have to do because at the end of the day you are a physical vessel and there's labor to do, there's money that needs to be earned and you won't be able to do that if you're not taking care of yourself.

[01:10:18] Ell: So yeah, I think that's a really baseline.

[01:10:22] Samantha Young: Yeah.

[01:10:22] Ell: Taking care of yourself so you can show up and do the work.

[01:10:25] Samantha Young: Yeah, especially if you started working for yourself because you didn't want to be exploited by some company, by some employer, then don't turn around and just start exploiting yourself. It is a trap that people fall into and it's not a personal failing, it's the natural evolution of capitalism, right?

[01:10:44] Samantha Young: To exploit, to get the most output for the least amount of input. So we can do that to ourselves and it is compatible with capitalism, but that's not why you start a business for yourself, right? Is not [01:11:00] to turn around and just then, yeah, exploit yourself. Ideally you are doing that because you want to do things differently and you want to have a bit more agency and autonomy in your life.

[01:11:12] Samantha Young: So don't become the exploiter in your own business.

Closing Out With Ell

[01:11:16] Samantha Young: Do you have anything coming up in January that you want to promote to anyone?

[01:11:22] Ell: No, I'm not doing any online astrological services at the moment. So yeah, no, I don't have anything to promote.

[01:11:29] Samantha Young: I love that you reached out, because we followed each other for a while and have been colleagues and giving each other astrology readings and things like that, but I truly have always really appreciated your artistic approach. That's why I call you a visual artist, because in my mind, when I think of you and if you want to call it like your brand or whatever it is, the impression I always have is just a visual impact.

[01:11:52] Samantha Young: I can't even really describe it, but you're just, I think you're just an artist in the truest sense of the word. And that's probably why, so it's [01:12:00] like everything you do is going to look like and feel like art.

[01:12:03] Ell: Oh my God.

[01:12:04] Samantha Young: In my mind.

[01:12:06] Ell: That feels really good to hear. Also, like 10 million of my placements are in the bounds of Venus, so it makes sense that I give off that energy. And yeah, it feels good to be able to connect with you and talk about these things that are really important and hopefully help some people along the way.

Shout-Outro

[01:12:25] Samantha Young: Amen to that. I hope that conversation was helpful to you. I hope it was nourishing. I hope maybe it was eye opening. I hope you learned something. I am so grateful to Ell for reaching out to be on this podcast. Talking about the intersections of astrology and capitalism and sex work is just what I'm all about, so that was really awesome. And I'm really glad that I was able to share Ell with you. I am [01:13:00] such a big fan.

[01:13:01] Samantha Young: Closing down this episode. I want to give one shout out because I like to shout out people in my podcast. This is my podcast. I do what I want. And I also want to close on a less somber note than maybe I began the episode on.

[01:13:19] Samantha Young: There are countless GoFundMes out there right now for people affected by their homes being lost in the LA fires. And so I would encourage you, if you're somebody who has funds to spare, to contribute to those in any way that you can, to amplify them, to do what you can, what's accessible to you, to help out the folks in LA.

[01:13:44] Samantha Young: And something else that I want to plant here, as more of a seed of hope and more of a dream of a future where we are planning for the things that we want as opposed to recovering from and running from and [01:14:00] rebuilding after what we've been through, these catastrophes that we didn't want and didn't plan for.

[01:14:05] Samantha Young: I want to plant the seed of hope for Nico Ruta. I met them in the Discord server for the Church of Soft Power, and Nico is planning to build a community herbalism space in Long Beach, my hometown, and I am so moved by Nico's mission. I firmly believe in third places and the need for them as more and more third places dwindle in our society, and the idea of a third space for herbalism, not just for learning and gardening, but for crafting and creating and connecting with the community, it's a really beautiful mission. It's a really beautiful goal, I am in wholehearted support of this idea, so I'll [01:15:00] include a link in the show notes to Nico's fundraiser for their herbalism space.

[01:15:04] Samantha Young: If you have the resources to spare on top of all the other tragedies that are constantly demanding our attention, this is somewhere where you can also put your money and also put your resources that contributes to, like I said, not just rebuilding or recovering, but for building and flourishing and establishing and setting intention for the world that we really want to live in.

[01:15:29] Samantha Young: This is where it starts. This is where the 5th house and the 11th house connection flourishes. All of that information will be included, and if you are interested in talking about astrology, going over your own chart through an anti-capitalist lens, my books are open for February.

[01:15:50] Samantha Young: But besides that, I'm just really grateful to you for being here, for listening. The feedback that I've been getting from this podcast is... honestly, it makes me cry every [01:16:00] time, okay? I'm a Capricorn. I'm not like a public crier, but privately, girl, I am always crying. So just know that I see your words. I see your feedback and it means the world to me. This podcast is part of my own way of planting seeds for the future that I want to live in, and I hope you feel the same.

[01:16:22] Samantha Young: Until next time, take care of yourselves, and take care of each other.

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