CC Ep #1
[00:00:00] Ursula K. LeGuin: We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable.
[00:00:05] John F. Kennedy: The vast stretches of the unknown, the unanswered, and the unfinished.
[00:00:11] Ursula K. LeGuin: Resistance and change often begin in the art of words.
[00:00:18] John F. Kennedy: Not because they are easy, but because they are hard.
[00:00:23] Ursula K. LeGuin: The voices who can see alternatives to how we live now. The realists of a larger reality.
[00:00:33] Sam Young: Welcome to The Cosmic Co Op.
Episode Introduction
[00:00:44] Sam Young: My name is Sam and I will be your host, and... I'm just so excited. This podcast has been a dream I've had since lunch, and it's been something that I've nurtured in my heart, an idea that I've just been growing, to center [00:01:00] around collaboration and conversation. I don't want to just be up here on my soap box with y'all. I want to get down and get into conversation and share stories and ask big questions and really get to the root of what it means to be anti-capitalist in these times, in late stage capitalism. What does that mean? What does it look like? What qualifies somebody as "anti-capitalist"? What does that... where does that come from?
[00:01:24] I've spoken to a lot of people in my life, especially in the last few years, about this, and a common [00:01:30] theme that I hear a lot is people feeling like they're not smart enough. They don't know enough. They haven't read enough books. They're not academic enough to call themselves really anti-capitalist. Or, they participate in capitalism, so they can't call [00:01:45] themselves an anticapitalist. And I think what I'm really trying to do here is just demystify that, bring anti-capitalism down to earth and talk about real people's journeys and real people's realizations that [00:02:00] capitalism doesn't have to be the only way.
[00:02:02] So this conversation that I'm having today, with Stella Gold of My Gold Standard, was honestly so nourishing, and we talked about many things, from financial [00:02:15] literacy to liberation, to what it means to be somebody who wants to build wealth, but also identifies with anti-capitalism. Can these two concepts co-exist? Can anti-capitalists dream of wealth or desire [00:02:30] wealth or have wealth and still be an anticapitalist? So there's a lot of really juicy stuff to get into.
[00:02:35] And I'm really excited for you to hear the other guests that we have going forward as well, and their stories. I'm so excited to have you listening, and I can't wait [00:02:45] for you to hear what me and Stella got up to.
[00:02:48] But first, before we get into that, let's get into our astrological mission log and talk about some transits that are happening right now.
Astro Log
[00:03:02] Sam Young: The elephant in the room is Pluto, who just moved into Aquarius yesterday, as of the time that I'm recording this. And... that's it. Pluto is going to be in Aquarius for the next 20 years. There are no [00:03:15] more retrogrades back into Capricorn. What does this mean, The last few weeks, everybody has been trying to predict what's going to go on the next 20 years, and we've got some good ideas, I think. I'm not really saying anything brand new here, but I [00:03:30] did want to talk about, briefly, what happened last time Pluto was in Aquarius.
[00:03:34] We've been talking a lot the last few years about the United States having its Pluto return, because Pluto takes about 250 years to move through the entire zodiac and go all the way around the [00:03:45] sun, the last few years with Pluto in Capricorn, there's been a lot of conversation about the United States' Pluto return and what that means, but something I've been thinking about is that the last time Pluto was in Aquarius was beginning in the late 1700s. And this transit [00:04:00] last time we had it, there was multiple revolutions, the French Revolution, the American Revolution. There was also the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution and really, if you think about it, the beginnings of capitalism as we know it today. The beginning [00:04:15] of the end, this late stage, and really this huge development that we've seen in the last Pluto cycle, with capitalism.
[00:04:24] if the average age of an empire is 250 years, and everybody's been talking about the United States [00:04:30] as an empire, and what it means to be reaching that age, I'm thinking about... what's the Pluto return of capitalism going to look like? It's very much intertwined with the United States, as it is a huge capitalist force, this country that I live in, [00:04:45] but there's something about Pluto in Aquarius and how the structures of everything, the rotting, exposed structures that we've been looking at for the last 16 years, and the more and more that the rot becomes exposed within the structures that [00:05:00] govern our material reality... now we're here looking at the rubble and now it's about structuring ideas, That's moving from the earth expression of Saturn in Capricorn to the air expression of Saturn in Aquarius: now we have to have ideas. Now we have to [00:05:15] think. Now we have to plan. Now we have to collaborate and think, "What does humanity need? What do we need? How do we rebuild these structures in a way that serves humanity, instead of serving just a select few?
[00:05:28] We've watched a lot of systems, a lot of structures break down, but breaking isn't the same as building. And we are floating in this little in-between space, I think, for now.
[00:05:37] We're definitely in between new worlds, because Pluto and Neptune and Uranus are all going to be, within the next 18 months, permanently [00:05:45] within new signs. This is a big deal. Outer planet transits are collective. They don't really show up immediately. They don't usually manifest results quickly. They're not usually personal transits. They're collective, they're mundane. They happen to all of [00:06:00] us. the effects of Pluto, and eventually soon Uranus and Neptune, all moving into new signs might not be immediately visible.
[00:06:08] We don't know what's going to happen in the next 20 years of Pluto in Aquarius, but we know that decentralization has been a [00:06:15] big theme, especially in commerce, and decentralizing currency. And we know that thinking of ways to meet collective needs is really going to be a major, focus for the next couple decades.
[00:06:27] And since Pluto in Capricorn really [00:06:30] exposed us, like I've been saying, to the rot of the structures and all these financial crises and supply chain breakdowns that we witnessed during Pluto in Capricorn, was all about... ripping up the floorboards of the systems, the [00:06:45] hierarchies, the old school power structures.
[00:06:47] Now the floorboards are gone, and we're staring at the exposed foundation, and now we have to think, "What do we build? What do we want?"
[00:06:56] Moving forward into the rest of the next 20 [00:07:00] years, which of course nobody can accurately predict everything that's going to happen. What I do think is that we're going to have to learn how to rely on each other. That's going to become more important than anything. And we also need to learn how to exchange ideas with each other.
[00:07:14] [00:07:15] On that note, let's get into the conversation with me and Stella Gold and exchange some very thought-provoking ideas. Enjoy.
[00:07:25] ​
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Stella Introduction
[00:07:26] Stella Gold: So my name is Stella Gold. I am [00:07:30] a queer and non-binary rebirth and wealth coach. I focus on empowering queer, trans, and BIPOC folks towards my definition of personal financial liberation, [00:07:45] and the way that I got started on this journey was very unexpected. Life seems to do that.
[00:07:56] Sometimes life be lifing, and it [00:08:00] was lifing pretty hardcore in 2015. My father unexpectedly passed away, and he did not make any type of [00:08:15] plan for his death, his transition. And through that, through that grief, I would say, and also anger, and I feel like anger has been a big [00:08:30] element and theme in moving through capitalism and this, and this financial system.
[00:08:39] For me, the way that it manifested was seeing my [00:08:45] mom, who's an immigrant from the Philippines, look towards me to help her through this humongous financial change in her life, now becoming a one income household [00:09:00] while I was already like an adult, financially sustaining myself, but my sibling was still in college, and my mom and father were both supporting them as much as they could with what [00:09:15] they had to move them through school.
[00:09:18] And on top of that, my mom still had a mortgage to pay. My mom had all of these bills to pay. And what was really frightening was finding out that [00:09:30] my mom wouldn't be receiving any of his Social Security. It was all going back to the government. And when we would talk to, for example, like the financial planners, and they would be [00:09:45] saying to us, "Hey, look, you're receiving this, inheritance from my dad's retirement, and that retirement only having $125,000 in it.
[00:09:55] Sam Young: Oh gosh.
[00:09:56] Stella Gold: He was one year away from retirement. [00:10:00] Scared the shit out of me.
[00:10:01] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Stella Gold: And made me really angry because he also was working two jobs. He was working two jobs that did not even... maybe made ends meet? At least in the hindsight, I thought we were making [00:10:15] ends meet as a family, and maybe we were, but in the forecasting of retirement, that was going to be pretty non existent. And so [00:10:30] that infuriated me. I wanted to learn everything that there was to finance, to financially planning, even for death, for financially planning for my mother being a single [00:10:45] income household, because she just didn't have the financial literacy to guide her through this.
[00:10:51] I had to take it upon myself and learn it. And when you try to learn all of these things, you discover that there's so [00:11:00] many injustices and it just opened up my world. And so I started, I really started this work from an advocacy lens and worked my way through the industry, whether [00:11:15] it be through nonprofits, through organizations that were mission driven, FinTech companies, like I really immersed myself in it all, only to come out on the other side of it being... having my eyes [00:11:30] wide open to, man, like I... I really want to do this myself. I want to create a space that I'm not seeing in the many industries that I've been in over the last [00:11:45] seven plus years. And that's what really birthed My Gold Standard.
[00:11:50] Sam Young: That's such a wild trajectory in terms of career. It's almost like you've seen all sides of the problem.
[00:11:58] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:11:59] Sam Young: Especially, [00:12:00] I would think, in the nonprofit. I've had a little bit of experience working for a nonprofit, but there's so many... there's so many issues in that sector for something that seems to be so well intentioned at its core, but gosh, you know?
[00:12:12] Stella Gold: So much. We can have a whole [00:12:15] episode on that in of itself.
[00:12:18] Sam Young: Yeah, that's a... that's really tough.
The Power of Anger
[00:12:21] Sam Young: When you were talking about anger, that really resonated with me as well, because it's a lot of what has inspired my journey as well: [00:12:30] just getting pissed off enough to like... I had to feel the need to dig into something. You're like, "I simply cannot accept this. This is unacceptable. I'm going to do something about it." And that... I think a lot of people might be quick to [00:12:45] devalue or avoid anger, but it's an extremely motivating force.
[00:12:49] Stella Gold: I could not agree more. I feel like anger has been a weaponized as this bad feeling to not have. [00:13:00] There's so much shame in the feeling and the emotion of anger when it's like, anger can be a compass.
[00:13:08] It can be a guide, and it could be a tool for taking action and [00:13:15] making a change, right? That disruption that you're talking about. Disrupting the norm that, honestly, is what we're all angry about. This shit should not be normal. All these injustices, this system, these systemic issues that we're having. So [00:13:30] I'm here for your anger, my anger, collective anger.
[00:13:34] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:13:36] Stella Gold: Let's do it.
[00:13:36] Sam Young: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, for me, like on an astrological note too, I started off doing The Financial [00:13:45] Witch as like, strictly focusing on financial astrology for individuals, not like on a market basis, you know? And so what a lot of what I did was focus on like the second house. And for me, my second house in my chart is Scorpio, which [00:14:00] is ruled by Mars, and I have Jupiter there and I have Pluto also in Scorpio. And so it was a lot of that for me. Scorpio is a Mars-ruled sign and it's very emotional. It's a water sign. I always think of [00:14:15] boiling water when I think of Scorpio, and that's what happened when I started my journey, too. I was just like, I just got so fed up with everything that I had seen and experienced and it all just spilled over into something transformative. Yeah, very down for anger. [00:14:30] And this is just my own curiosity, but in your own journey with creating My Gold Standard and shifting all these things for yourself, has it changed anything for your family now too?
[00:14:42] Stella Gold: I would say absolutely. [00:14:45] I feel so grateful to have the tools and the resources that I did not have before, if it not were for my anger, to be like, "This is a problem and I'm [00:15:00] so angry and fed up about it. I need to learn." It's almost like I equipped myself with these tools, these resources, so I could fight back the system.
[00:15:12] I think it came from a place [00:15:15] of resistance for sure. And with my family, so my mom, she did something so wonderful in that moment. She found someone else that had also equipped [00:15:30] herself in knowing the ins and outs of this system, and she asked her to come talk to me.
[00:15:36] And looking back, I was angry at my mom, too. It's like, you couldn't have also shared this burden with me? But I think my [00:15:45] mom really just was so grief stricken to a point where she felt at a loss. Whereas like I was so grief stricken that I felt angry and I was totally the perfect person to talk [00:16:00] to because I was ready. I just watched The Big Short and I'm like, wow, I know everything that happened in 2008 now.
[00:16:08] Sam Young: That's a crazy movie.
[00:16:10] Stella Gold: It is, and what's crazy is it's not a movie. It's a [00:16:15] movie, but it's like...
[00:16:16] Sam Young: This really happened.
[00:16:17] Stella Gold: It happened. It's a true story. And so this woman came, it was her co worker's wife. He was like, "Hey, my wife is just really nerdy about this stuff, [00:16:30] and she can come and talk to your kid, your adult child about the ins and outs."
[00:16:36] And I remember thinking how cool she was. I was like, "Wow, she knows everything about this." And she said to me how important [00:16:45] it was that I do my own research, not rely on what people or these systems are telling me it should be this, or it should be that, that I need to ask questions, make my own informed decisions and [00:17:00] do everything I can to be as resourced as possible.
[00:17:05] And because of that, I feel I took that wisdom and I really soaked up everything that I could to learn about [00:17:15] financial literacy. I did it from a logical standpoint and then found that logic can only take you so far, that you have to get to the emotional side of things, the mental health side of things, the trauma informed side of [00:17:30] things, the intersectional side of things, the political side of things.
[00:17:35] Like, so much opened up for me, and I was able to take that knowledge and experience and use it for my [00:17:45] own family, like with my sibling, I even have shared with them this wealth of knowledge. And I say "wealth of knowledge" is pun intended to share [00:18:00] that, to help them, to support them through moving.
[00:18:05] Once they finally graduated, finding a job, earning income, how to handle their student loans, how to get their credit score in a good place. [00:18:15] With my mom, it was a little bit of the opposite. It was like, keeping her protected from being susceptible to these predatory practices that can show up when it comes to older [00:18:30] people and their retirement.
[00:18:31] So I think with my mom, it's been more of like a protective thing, and a divesting type of thing and avoiding type of thing. We're avoiding, like I'm trying to get her-- and it's still being, it is still a [00:18:45] work in progress. She got herself in this financial MLM where she transferred like six figures, like $200,000 worth of her retirement into this alternative investment.
[00:18:59] And [00:19:00] it came from family being like, "Hey, I'm a part of this network, and I'm your family." So there's this trust. And my family didn't know better. Like my aunt didn't know better. She really believed in what she was selling. And then when I looked at [00:19:15] it, I was like, yeah, this ain't right. So I helped her transfer it back to her retirement.
[00:19:21] Sam Young: And you know what I always say? Like even the biggest, like simp for capitalism out there is still just somebody who's trying to survive. [00:19:30]
[00:19:30] Stella Gold: Yes!
[00:19:31] Sam Young: And it sucks because people will, yeah, fall for a lot of things when they're just trying to survive.
[00:19:36] Stella Gold: That is 1000 percent so true. I have a lot of empathy for people like that. I do. [00:19:45] It makes-- and that also makes me angry. You just don't know any better.
[00:19:50] Sam Young: You're trying to do your best within the system because you think that it will reward you, and maybe it will, [00:20:00] but it usually takes more than it gives back.
[00:20:02] Stella Gold: Yes.
[00:20:04] Sam Young: That's really true. I related a lot to what you said about your mom and having to kind of try to protect her from things. I've seen this with both my mom and my stepdad, because [00:20:15] my stepdad has a very similar story to you, actually. His parents are Filipino immigrants who came to California by way of Canada. So he grew up in Canada and then they came to California and my stepdad's father also died very unexpectedly, and [00:20:30] his mom was... she relied upon him for everything.
[00:20:34] He ran the house, pretty much. He was her financial rock. Like, she's been retired for many years. They were both retired. And I don't know any of their financial details or anything like that, [00:20:45] but I do remember the years and years of my stepdad being very angry because he has a bit more financial literacy than his mom, he makes six figures and they're fine, but he was so [00:21:00] frustrated with her for not knowing these things.
[00:21:03] His frustration was really more on the, "You really just... you really just let Dad do everything," and now Dad's not here, and now we have to start from the ground up with her and [00:21:15] the same thing, trying to get her to not fall into things.
[00:21:17] And my mom goes through this with her dad too, who's disabled, and he, he falls for all these like phone call scams all the time. And for him, they're even more predatory because it's like, $10 here, $20 there, like [00:21:30] all these little bits, but it over the years has added up to so much money. So I was feeling that like, that anger too. It's that thing where it's like, even the scammer is somebody who's trying to survive, most of the time.
[00:21:42] For me, I'm almost constantly having to [00:21:45] like, deal with my anger, because I see people doing these things, people who scam, people who fall for scams, it's like, we're all actually in the same boat. We're actually all in the same boat, but that's trying to survive.
[00:21:58] It's really hard. I think that's [00:22:00] why taking a more systemic approach for me helps a lot too, as opposed to... Yes, individuals make choices, but trying to look at the entire system and then look at how individuals are trying to function within it.
[00:22:13] Stella Gold: Exactly. I [00:22:15] think that my anger at first was definitely misguided. I placed that on my mom, when looking back, what I was really angry about was the system. And I got to that place. I got to that place of [00:22:30] understanding that, through doing a lot of shadow work.
[00:22:34] And I think also, with people that are trying to survive, right? I think about scammers. I think about people that steal. Whether it be like petty theft, [00:22:45] or even I don't know, like stealing from my very susceptible mother that just didn't know any better. What's interesting is seeing her now. She's asking questions. She even got an email [00:23:00] from a Venmo type of scam. It was like, "Hey, we're trying to Venmo you X amount of money. You need to accept me as a friend and then send me this amount so I can confirm that this is you and you can confirm [00:23:15] this is me." And it was totally a phishing email. It was someone that she thought she had known, but she was like, "This feels off," because it was crypto, and why would they want to send me crypto? And so she called the number [00:23:30] that was on there.
[00:23:31] Sam Young: Oh my gosh.
[00:23:32] Stella Gold: And it was a complete stranger. It was this random person, and she gave it to my partner because she panicked. She's hey, can you talk to this person? And he answered the [00:23:45] phone and was like, hey, what is this addressing? And they just hung up.
[00:23:47] Sam Young: Oh my gosh.
[00:23:48] Stella Gold: And so I'm starting to see her change too.
[00:23:51] Sam Young: She actually called the phone number. I don't think I've ever even done that.
[00:23:55] Stella Gold: She was like, "This doesn't feel right. So I'm going to call them." [00:24:00]
[00:24:00] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:24:01] Stella Gold: Oh yeah.
Capitalism is the Context
[00:24:01] Sam Young: There's a lot of conversations we see about... like you were talking about people who steal, people who scam, and then, in the back of my head, I'm always thinking about like, how much wage theft goes on every year, too, and how much that totally amounts to [00:24:15] way more than whatever people are stealing shoes from Walmart or whatever it is.
[00:24:19] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:24:19] Sam Young: I think too, because for me, I've been in a position where... when I was 20, 21, I was living in my car with my boyfriend, and trying to survive [00:24:30] because I had left my home, it wasn't safe there anymore.
[00:24:33] We were at that point where we were so desperate that we were contemplating stealing. And it's like now, even now I couldn't fathom getting to that point because I haven't been in that type of situation in so long. My body, like, has [00:24:45] moved past it, but it's like... back then, it was just so much, it was coming from so much desperation.
[00:24:52] And so it's not to say, I'm not like a, "Theft across the board is great and fine," but it's like yeah, we have to [00:25:00] ask why people are doing these things, and then that brings you into, you just, eventually you come to address the system. Like it's impossible to avoid at this point.
[00:25:10] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:25:10] The context matters.
[00:25:13] Sam Young: Yeah. Context super matters. I'm [00:25:15] very big on context as a Libra rising. Just like... everything has a lot of answers. You want me to give you a hard, concrete, definite answer? That's hard for me sometimes.
[00:25:26] Stella Gold: Yeah. So when I think about how you were [00:25:30] trying to survive, how people that are stealing or scamming or, the "main simps of capitalism," as you said, they're all just trying to survive and navigate the system, and it's, by design, putting it all on the [00:25:45] individual, right? Instead of leaning into our communities and the collective.
[00:25:50] And I think that shift is finally happening now where we are realizing: wait a minute, we don't have to do it [00:26:00] alone. We can lean on each other. But I think the seeds are being planted for that.
[00:26:06] Sam Young: Yeah, I definitely see a lot more of it. I just recently found out about this online community called [00:26:15] Nuclear Fusion, and it is... I think they have an app or they're building an app. It's still in like the early phases, but you can join their online membership, and it is for families who want to like, cohabitate with other families to find each other and to [00:26:30] create these networks, and their thing is about... not like, destroying the nuclear family, but like decentering it, and connecting parents
[00:26:40] Stella Gold: Is this the polyamorous creators that...?
[00:26:43] Sam Young: I don't know. [00:26:45]
[00:26:45] Stella Gold: Oh my gosh.
[00:26:45] Sam Young: I haven't looked into who exactly. I was just on their website yesterday.
[00:26:49] Stella Gold: First of all, I'm all about decentering the nuclear family. I didn't know that this was an app, like I didn't read, I knew they had this app and I didn't realize it was... [00:27:00] I didn't realize the "nuclear" was rooted in decentering the nuclear family. Oh my gosh, sorry, my mind is blown right now.
[00:27:09] Sam Young: Yeah, so you know, it's looking to build a village or people who want to build mutual aid networks or even just a chosen family [00:27:15] and it's for people to find each other. I've been following their Instagram and they have a couple of cases where like, people have actually done this, there's a few families have actually moved in together and started to do this.
[00:27:25] It's that kind of stuff that gives me hope, that we're really, getting [00:27:30] it. Not just that we can rely on each other, but that we're going to have to, it's going to be an imperative. So we need to start learning how to rely on each other.
[00:27:40] Stella Gold: Oof. That's tough.
[00:27:42] Sam Young: That's a big one.
[00:27:43] Stella Gold: No one wants to do that.
[00:27:44] Sam Young: No. [00:27:45]
[00:27:45] Stella Gold: I have to trust people?
[00:27:47] Sam Young: No. Yeah. Asking for help. Very difficult.
Submissions
[00:27:53] Sam Young: Speaking of asking for help, we have submissions in this podcast, and like I told you, they vary from straight up questions, sometimes it's [00:28:00] just confessions, things that people need to get off their chest. These submissions are a hundred percent anonymous, even to me. So there's a couple that I pulled out that we could address today and kind of talk about while we're on this subject of shame and [00:28:15] survival.
[00:28:16] So I have my first submission here says, "I grew up in poverty, so I was never taught saving or investing or even basic money management. I got older and wound up in $30,000 of debt, filed for bankruptcy at age [00:28:30] 24, and I'm 30 now with another $30,000 looming over me. I'm working on learning financial literacy to avoid this happening again."
[00:28:38] And then a related submission that I thought we could also address here, too, is just somebody saying, "I don't know how to ask for help because it's my [00:28:45] fault, and I should know how to get out of this." and I feel like that really reflects what you just said about it.
[00:28:50] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:28:51] Sam Young: The pressure is always put on the individual, to deal with these big systemic issues that are so much bigger than one person.
[00:28:59] Stella Gold: Yeah. [00:29:00] Wow. That... just reading, I have so much... my heart goes out to these two individuals, because I could feel the shame in their words, and it's becoming [00:29:15] internalized.
[00:29:16] Sam Young: Right.
[00:29:17] Stella Gold: I think there's a balance between taking personal responsibility, because it's... it's both/and right? It's "Yeah, I have the knowledge now to [00:29:30] take some personal responsibility. Some. Like, now. Maybe back then I couldn't take personal responsibility. It wasn't an option. Because it wasn't just on me, but now what do I do?"
[00:29:41] And I see that they did, they filed for bankruptcy. [00:29:45] That's a tool that can be used to support you.
[00:29:50] Sam Young: Yeah. And I just want to say, I think filing for bankruptcy is a very brave thing to do.
[00:29:54] Stella Gold: It is so brave. I, have, in, fact, supported. [00:30:00] Dozens and dozens of individuals filing for bankruptcy back in the day when I used to work at this fintech company. I feel like bankruptcy gets a bad rap, and it does come with consequences as well, and [00:30:15] sometimes those consequences totally are worth it if you can start over.
[00:30:21] Sam Young: Both of my parents, separately in their lives-- cause they haven't been married for a very long time-- both of my parents at some point have both filed for bankruptcy and [00:30:30] now are both... my dad's credit score is fantastic. Like it is totally possible and it can be a really good thing. It takes a lot of bravery to just make that step. And there's so much shame that surrounds the word "bankruptcy," too.
[00:30:43] Stella Gold: Yeah, I think it [00:30:45] should be just stigmatized. And I love that we're having this conversation being like, it's a tool. It can really free you. And yes, I just echoing what you said, that's really brave. And reading the part of [00:31:00] "I now found myself back in this place," and that's what's, I think, important to understand, is when we have financial [00:31:15] trauma, that's so difficult to move through on your own. And the fact that this person is also being brave again, being like, "I'm learning so I can avoid this [00:31:30] happening again, I can disrupt the cycle."
[00:31:37] Sam Young: And it's like you said earlier too, money is very emotional. You can only use logic for so long. The emotions surrounding [00:31:45] money are... that's a core part of it. It's like you said, there's a personal responsibility too, which is a little bit more logical. You're like, "What can I do with the money that I have, like with the resources that are available to me, how can I restructure some things?" [00:32:00]
[00:32:00] At some point you have to address the emotional part of it. And for a lot of people... I don't know about you, when I was doing financial astrology readings for two years, shame was pretty much the main emotion that we talked about for most people. Shame or just like embarrassment, [00:32:15] and it came from-- what I thought was interesting too, was that it came from people from all different economic backgrounds. Like it wasn't always just people who had financial trauma or grew up in poverty or had to file for bankruptcy. Sometimes it [00:32:30] was people who were like, "I've been really comfortable my whole life and my parents took good care of me, and like, when they die, I'm going to inherit X, Y, Z, and I feel so shitty about that."
[00:32:38] So there's so many different ways I see this shame seeping in, and it just, to me, [00:32:45] was part of what fired me up to just address that more directly with people, like, you feeling shame about being poor is systemic and serves a purpose for capitalism. You feeling shame about not being poor also serves a purpose for [00:33:00] capitalism. It gets in the way of what people I think really aim for in their lives, which is just to be resourced and to feel good about the ways that they are resourced.
[00:33:10] Stella Gold: Yeah. To have enough. It's wild to me that there's shame [00:33:15] attached to simply having enough, not even having excess.
[00:33:19] Sam Young: Yeah, because humans are empathetic and my clients are good people. So they're like, "Yeah, I see others suffering and I feel bad because I didn't, or I don't suffer in the same ways, and because I [00:33:30] don't know how to help them. I don't know if there's a way." Because yeah, the problems are so much bigger than individuals. It's like you can give your friends money and that's great, and I think if people are in a position to redistribute funds then they should do [00:33:45] that, but that still is just a bandaid sometimes. People need more than that in order to.... we're going to need each other.
[00:33:54] And I feel a lot for these 2 individuals, too, like you said. Asking for help is really hard. [00:34:00] Even just like, some people... just even admitting what is happening in their finances is really hard. Just looking at the numbers just really brings up a lot of shame.
[00:34:10] Stella Gold: Yeah, and I think that the shame, it's always-- and I see a key [00:34:15] word here. It's, "I should know how to get out of this." Shame is always attached to, I should be here or I should not be here. That word should is always there.
[00:34:27] Sam Young: Yup. Yeah. I talk about all the time with my [00:34:30] astrology clients too. It's that "should," it's always popping up.
[00:34:33] Stella Gold: Yeah. And it's actually, when you think about it from that systemic, when you zoom out outside of just you and you go [00:34:45] to, "Should I be here?" Yeah, actually, maybe you should be here because that's what capitalism thrives off of. It's you being in this position, but you don't have to be here, and you could [00:35:00] find a way out of this and be somewhere else.
[00:35:05] Whether that be on an individual level, a communal level, a collective level. I don't know, I feel like sometimes that's where it can get enmeshed, [00:35:15] and we can get in the muck and the weeds of it, because we feel... When we think about who is actually saying this "should" to me? Is it me? Did it actually come from me, or is it from generations upon [00:35:30] generations of capitalist conditioning?
[00:35:33] Sam Young: My friend, Erin Monahan, who is also an anti-capitalist and she writes about wealth and things, she always says, her thing is, yeah. Whose shame is this? Who is giving this to you? [00:35:45] Because, that would be my question, too. It's like, "It's my fault and I should know how to get out of this."
[00:35:50] Who said you should know how to get out of this? If that's the case, then, what tools have you been given? If [00:36:00] you haven't been given any tools, then maybe it's not just your fault.
[00:36:04] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:36:05] Sam Young: And if you don't know how to, I like to tell people, it's not your fault for not knowing things, also. It's not your fault for not knowing things. You don't know what you don't know. [00:36:15] And so not knowing how to change your situation isn't something to feel bad about. Again, it's like with the bankruptcy thing. It's like, saying, "I don't know what to do" is very [00:36:30] brave. Cause we have that whole, the individuality thing, and the, "people are supposed to be resourceful and innovative," and that's the capitalism bit, is like, when it gets internalized. "I now need to innovate myself to do [00:36:45] things better, faster, I need to change X, Y, Z so that my financial situation will improve, like it's all on me."
[00:36:54] And that's just... it's just a lot. It's really heavy. I felt that before too, [00:37:00] feeling like the whole, everything's on my shoulders. It sucks to feel like you are completely alone, but it's also... the one little personal responsibility bit that you're talking about is like, you do have to take that first [00:37:15] step of saying, "I don't know what I'm doing and I need help."
[00:37:17] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:37:18] Sam Young: That's the bravest thing you could possibly do.
[00:37:21] Stella Gold: I got even chills just hearing you say that. This is so powerful. And that's how I started, right? I started, and [00:37:30] maybe that's how you started as well, like diving into this financial chapter of our lives, being very radically honest with ourselves, saying, "I don't know, and I need help."
[00:37:44] And [00:37:45] not just saying it once, saying it over and over again and having that be okay.
[00:37:50] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:37:51] Stella Gold: It's okay to learn new things.
[00:37:53] Sam Young: And it's okay to... the shame part too, is because when you ask [00:38:00] for help, you have to be open about whatever it is that you're struggling with. And with money, again, so much shame attached to, you have to let other people know. You have to let other people in, and that's what's really scary.
[00:38:11] I had to crowdfund for my survival [00:38:15] three years in a row, for three different reasons. But three years in a row, I had to turn to my community and say, "We need fucking help guys, The ship's going down. We [00:38:30] don't know what to do."
[00:38:31] The first time was I was hospitalized like 30 weeks into my pregnancy and was told like, "You've got these issues going on. You're going to be here for the next four weeks and then you're going to deliver early."
[00:38:44] And [00:38:45] so it's like, I was still trying to work. We still had bills to pay, right? My husband had still had a house to run, with me in the hospital. So we had to ask, we had to crowdfund then, right? Just to make sure that we could eat and survive and [00:39:00] like pay for Ubers to the hospital and that kind of stuff. And our community got us through.
[00:39:07] The second, time was me having family issues and having to move with two days' [00:39:15] notice. The last time was also housing insecurity, trying not to get evicted. And none of those times felt... none of it felt good.
[00:39:23] And I resisted every single time. Like I was trying to do every single thing I could possibly do and ask for help [00:39:30] was like the last thing. I'm going to try everything, everything I can do to solve this on my own until I just can't anymore. And even that, like, asking for help is brave.
[00:39:42] And I was like, my "asking for help" [00:39:45] muscle is getting stronger, because I keep having to do it, but it's still, even for me, like, I champion people asking for help and I will even still wait until the very last second to do it, until I'm completely backed into a corner, to like actually say, [00:40:00] "Okay, I need help."
[00:40:02] It's a constant. That's what I'm trying to get at, is it's a constant process, too. This shame doesn't just... you don't just deal with it once. And it just goes away. Like it takes, it takes many forms. It's a, really lifelong thing, I feel. [00:40:15]
[00:40:15] Stella Gold: I'm so sorry you went through all of that, and I hope that people listening feel very seen and heard by your radical vulnerability.
[00:40:27] And also, [00:40:30] I think it's a beautiful thing to reflect back on that. You said something that really stood out to me, and it was, "I waited until I was backed into a corner," or "I waited, I did everything else before I asked for [00:40:45] help." And it would be so beautiful if support and help-- this is what I'm reimagining for our futures-- if support and help was something that was not only given when asked, but was like this symbiotic [00:41:00] relationship of, "Oh, you're in the hospital. How can I help you? What can I do? What can I give?" And that money is a part of that, just naturally. It will take time to get there.
[00:41:12] Sam Young: We had other friends too that were like, yeah, if they were [00:41:15] local, they would come by and bring me food or things like that, or just spend time with me, cause I was so bored and lonely in there. That was my first experience really having to just like... it felt like flaying myself open, really, to just like my whole community, [00:41:30] online, offline, and just be like, "This is our situation," and realize that people want to help.
[00:41:37] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:41:37] Sam Young: They sometimes just need to be told how to begin.
[00:41:41] Stella Gold: Yes.
[00:41:42] Sam Young: We're still in these early phases of learning how [00:41:45] to rely on each other, and learning that we have to rely on each other. It's not really optional at this point.
[00:41:52] It moved me a lot, too, to see that people wanted any way to help. It's just that sometimes they don't know how to start or they don't know what to [00:42:00] offer.
[00:42:00] Stella Gold: And also we don't know how to receive. Receiving is also hard.
[00:42:09] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:42:10] Stella Gold: Lots of wisdom there.
[00:42:12] Sam Young: I think, like you're saying, I would like to [00:42:15] reimagine where asking for help is higher up on the list, it's not the last thing that I do. Maybe it's like the first or second thing. There's a lot of shame that comes in asking for help, but it's also on the other side of that. You get so much more than just [00:42:30] yeah, money. Or yeah, you get this one problem solved, but you also are deeply touched, in your heart.
[00:42:37] Stella Gold: It's love!
[00:42:38] Sam Young: Yeah! You get to actually feel love from other people when you ask for help and people want to give it to you. They just don't often... I find [00:42:45] that most people are just scared of doing or saying the wrong thing. And that's what keeps them from offering. We have to one, learn how to receive, like you said, and then also learn how to offer help imperfectly.
[00:42:56] Stella Gold: Yes.
[00:42:56] Sam Young: And just give each other a lot of grace, because it's like, what I care about is [00:43:00] that people want to help. That's what keeps me going when I'm feeling so pissed off, is I'm like, most people at the end of the day though, when given the chance to help, will help in any way they can. I firmly believe that, anyway.
[00:43:12] Stella Gold: Yeah. Me too. [00:43:15]
Is Financial Literacy Liberation?
[00:43:16] Sam Young: I know we touched on this a little bit before, but this whole topic of financial literacy and it being a tool for liberation, and I know you've historically said that financial literacy is liberation, [00:43:30] particularly for people who are like systemically marginalized. Do you still feel this way, or how is that? How was your journey on that, with financial literacy as liberation?
[00:43:42] Stella Gold: I think I'm at the crossroads right [00:43:45] now, because "financial literacy is liberation" is what I believed for so long. Like you have seen me in this work and know that I've been [00:44:00] at it for the last seven years plus. You know, probably longer than that, now that I'm reflecting. I got into this work in 2016, and I [00:44:15] believed financial literacy was what would free us all. The only issue that we're having is this lack of education. It's because we just don't know.
[00:44:26] And last year, I went through [00:44:30] a menty B, went through a bit of a mental identity crisis, and there was so much that triggered it. There was the Silicon Valley bank failure situation, back in 2020. [00:44:45] The whole GameStop thing happened where I was like, "All of this is made up." and same with the Silicon Valley bank failures. I'm like, "This is all made up. This is a circus."
[00:44:56] And seeing my [00:45:00] clients do everything that they could by working with me, we were financially literate. They were financially literate, and even working on the emotional and mental health side of things and wanting to make those behavioral changes in their [00:45:15] financial, using that as also a guiding light in financial literacy, and I wanted to change financial literacy to be inclusive of that.
[00:45:23] However, I found out that you can know all the things, and the system, capitalism, can [00:45:30] still oppress you. It can still keep you down. And that's when I started to realize that maybe financial literacy isn't liberation. Like, I'm still processing this. So being like, maybe financial literacy isn't [00:45:45] liberation. Maybe financial literacy is simply a tool, a resource, and money is this tool and resource to help us navigate through [00:46:00] capitalism, not to become these capitalist, wealthy, affluent, greedy people, or to create more systems of that, but simply to-- wow, coming full circle-- do [00:46:15] what I did with my mom to protect ourselves, to equip ourselves, so we can resist as much as we can and divest away as much as we can while we navigate through the system until [00:46:30] we can completely dismantle it and co-create something better. That is the part that I feel is true liberation. I think financial literacy is how we figure out surviving, [00:46:45] and even in some ways, dare I say thriving.
[00:46:49] Sam Young: Yeah,
[00:46:50] Stella Gold: As much as we can, so we can support other folks in surviving and thriving under the system. And then when we're resourced enough and we've created like [00:47:00] what you said, the communities of leaning on each other, resourcing ourselves, sharing, co-creating together. We can, from that foundation, make something new, or maybe [00:47:15] it's not about making something new, it's about going back. It's about remembering and doing that ancestral work and re-indigenizing.
[00:47:24] Because capitalism has only been around for 500 years or so.
[00:47:28] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:47:29] Stella Gold: And that [00:47:30] also always blows my mind. I'm like, this is not...
[00:47:33] Sam Young: So new in the terms of all of human history. It's relatively new.
[00:47:38] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:47:38] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:47:39] Stella Gold: So I think I'm still... I think I'm still processing, because I do know that there's so [00:47:45] much value in financial literacy, and I had to go through this mental crisis because I really thought, damn, if they can't find their way out of capitalism through the power of financial literacy-- because financial literacy is supposed to be [00:48:00] liberation, right? This was my own identity in financial literacy and in this work that I did-- what's the point?
[00:48:06] I had to do my own inner work: is this capitalism talking, or is this truly what I believe? And I think I'm still in [00:48:15] that. I think I'm still in that. It's such an interesting place to be in.
[00:48:19] Sam Young: I think, what you're talking about, this processing, this, shift... I, I agree. The image that came to my head when you were talking, I'm thinking about financial [00:48:30] liberation as like: if you're floating down a river of shit, it's still more helpful to have a paddle.
[00:48:35] So that's what financial liberation is or financial literacy is. It's the paddle, but you're still in the river of shit. It's just helping you navigate [00:48:45] it better.
[00:48:46] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:48:47] Sam Young: And yeah, there's definitely value to it. And I think what you're experiencing too, is... it's this something that I'm only beginning to notice when I talk to people about capitalism, but it's almost like... it's almost like everybody [00:49:00] undergoes a slight identity crisis at some point when addressing capitalism more face to face.
[00:49:07] Because it's like, a thing. It's a thing people talk about all the time. Everyone's heard this term, "late stage capitalism." It's not underground, [00:49:15] really, to be anti-capitalist anymore, like it was like, 30 years ago, or even before that.
[00:49:20] It's not that underground anymore, but I think there's times when we all are forced to confront it more directly and more personally. And that, [00:49:30] I've noticed, is part of people's journey, is when just-- because I know you mentioned before when we talked before the episode about the.. sometimes there's even a nervousness, right, around publicly calling yourself anti-capitalist.
[00:49:42] Stella Gold: Yeah. Especially when you're [00:49:45] a financial educator.
[00:49:46] Sam Young: Yes. Yes. Yes.
[00:49:48] Stella Gold: So when I went through that, I didn't know that what was happening was that I was becoming quote unquote "radicalized." [00:50:00] And I say quote unquote because what I have come to learn is that is it really radical to be anti-capitalist? Like I don't really think it is.
[00:50:07] Sam Young: I don't think it is.
[00:50:09] Stella Gold: But I was very avoidant. I think because my journey actually started many [00:50:15] years ago where I would begin to hear from clients or even people in my community saying, "You can't be anti-capitalist, because like we live in capitalism and that's that, and we have to [00:50:30] make money," and like conflating anti-capitalism meaning that you don't make money, that you don't resource yourself.
[00:50:39] Sam Young: That you don't like money, even, that you're supposed to hate money somehow.
[00:50:42] Stella Gold: Yeah, that it's supposed to be this [00:50:45] icky thing. Like, money is the root of all evil, right? It's like, why are we repeating Bible scripture? Y'all know that comes from the Bible.
[00:50:52] Sam Young: Right.
[00:50:54] Stella Gold: I had to unpack that, because I think that I became susceptible to that, and I started to see [00:51:00] people feeling shame about making money even if it meant just to survive, right? Coming full circle with the 'just having enough'. And I didn't want to be like, I'm, having this anti-capitalist lens, because then now they're going to assume [00:51:15] that it means that they can't make money or that they can't have enough, they can't support themselves, because that was a lot of the rhetoric that was happening.
[00:51:25] And I think that the reason why I wanted to really have this conversation with you is [00:51:30] because we have seen that. We have seen how people assume what anti-capitalism means, because they're comparing it to capitalism.
[00:51:43] Sam Young: Oh yeah.
[00:51:43] Stella Gold: So much, [00:51:45] so that they're thinking the anti-capitalist means just making no money, financially suffering, being financially insecure, because how dare you? Otherwise, you're just this raging capitalist.
[00:51:57] Sam Young: Trust me, you are preaching to the choir right now. [00:52:00] I knew what I was putting myself at risk for when I decided to name my course Anti-Capitalist Astrology, and charge 400 dollars for it. Which, for an eight week course, by the way, is nothing.
[00:52:14] Stella Gold: Yeah! [00:52:15] Sorry, I did see that, and I'm like, that's so generous.
[00:52:18] Sam Young: Right!
[00:52:18] Stella Gold: From my perspective, I thought, "Wow, that's so generous."
[00:52:21] Sam Young: So I knew that doing that was a bold choice and that people could try to do some sort of gotcha to me, right? And I've had, [00:52:30] I've had a couple-- way less than I expected, honestly-- a couple of people try to do that with me, and I don't really ever give them much of my time because it's like, you're not going to buy the course, you're not going to join the course, and if you're already here arguing with me about the [00:52:45] fact that I shouldn't be paid for my work, like... you probably aren't ready for the conversations that are being had in this space, and there's other spaces for you.
[00:52:52] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[00:52:52] Sam Young: But yeah, I was nervous to call myself anti-capitalist for the same reasons too, because I'm a person who [00:53:00] provides services and I like to be paid money for them, cause I like to feed my kid, I like having a house to live in, and I don't even know really what got me to the other side of it, honestly, I think it was just a slow [00:53:15] process of realizing that the relationship I wanted to have to the services that I create doesn't-- it shouldn't create resentment. I shouldn't be undercharging basically, because I want to seem like a good person, but then I'm resentful because I'm [00:53:30] not making enough for the energy and output that is required.
[00:53:35] Stella Gold: Yeah. And that's a disservice, to the work and to your clients.
[00:53:39] Sam Young: Right? I'm not showing up in my best way because I'm already feeling resentful, or I'm feeling exhausted or [00:53:45] depleted. And I think that's something that... yeah, it just took a long while to unravel for me.
[00:53:50] I took a long break from my platform, my business for the first half of this year, because I was just-- one, I was dealing with a lot of stuff just in [00:54:00] my life, and part of that was financial problems. When you're really financially struggling, it's really hard to show up creatively and to provide a good product, and I didn't like that either. I didn't like that I was showing up to my business maybe trying to rush things to put them out because I just simply needed [00:54:15] money to survive. That didn't feel good.
Commerce Vs. Capitalism
[00:54:16] Sam Young: The distinction between anti-capitalism and capitalism, or like, how do we do commerce under capitalism, is.. I always try to explain to people that like commerce is a human thing. That's just what humans do: [00:54:30] we exchange things. Commerce is a very human thing. We get together. We exchange stuff for other stuff, or services or whatever it is. Capitalism is a form of commerce that has [00:54:45] grown under this umbrella. It's a way that we do commerce, which happens to be the dominant form right now.
[00:54:51] Stella Gold: Mmhmm.
[00:54:52] Sam Young: But it wasn't always, and it doesn't always have to be. And the thing that really clicked for me-- this was like the basis of my course-- is [00:55:00] what I realized like, people really think capitalism is the ultimate. They think that it's the way things have always been, or they think like, this is the best way to do things.
[00:55:11] I hear that from people who are like... you are not benefiting from [00:55:15] capitalism, my friend. And you're sitting here telling me that capitalism is the best way when you're actively suffering from capitalism, right? Capitalism is the best for a few people and for a very select few people, but the reason that we think it's so ultimate or the reason that we think [00:55:30] this is just how humans are, is because It has attached itself to mythologies that we have. It's attached itself to the stories that we tell, and it's attempting to reflect human nature back to us and tell us that [00:55:45] this is what human nature is.
[00:55:47] And I just disagree. I just-- I disagree. I don't think there is one "human nature". I don't think humans are a monolith. I think humans are contextual creatures, and I think our [00:56:00] behaviors vary vastly depending on our circumstances. It's like I said, 10 years ago, when I was living in my car, I was thinking about stealing, and now I would never do that, because I don't need to.
[00:56:10] The context has changed. It doesn't mean that I was a bad person before and now I'm a [00:56:15] good person, right? So I just don't think that human nature is as monolithic as capitalism claims it to be. It tries to say, "Well, this is what reflects human nature the most."
[00:56:26] Stella Gold: This is the way, this is the natural way.
[00:56:28] Sam Young: Because of course, yeah, [00:56:30] everyone wants to profit. Everybody wants a big old pile for themselves. Everybody wants... and so you're just told that throughout your life.
[00:56:35] It took me till I was like, 28 years old to realize that I actually did not want to be rich. It was a dream that I thought I had. I thought I wanted to make [00:56:45] millions and millions of dollars a year, and eventually I was like, I probably would be happy with a lot less than that, actually. But I had to realize that wasn't even my dream, that was a dream that capitalism gave to me.
[00:56:57] Stella Gold: And they keep you on that hamster wheel because [00:57:00] they're like, "If you want to be rich, you have to keep going and going and going," and then all of a sudden you lose yourself. So actually, you said something that stood out to me and I was like, "Yeah, wow."
[00:57:14] I'm like, [00:57:15] paraphrasing what you said, but saying like, capitalism might serve a specific population, right? And I do think that capitalism is rooted in white supremacy, so there's no getting around that.
[00:57:28] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:57:28] Stella Gold: And I think [00:57:30] that capitalism actually doesn't serve anybody, because it... It wreaks spiritual and psychological and mental havoc.
[00:57:39] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:57:40] Stella Gold: And when you see who capitalism is quote unquote "benefiting," the [00:57:45] billionaires, what are they doing? They are destroying planet Earth. They're destroying our home. They're destroying, and then they're having us destroy each other because we're all-- we have to survive in some way or [00:58:00] form.
[00:58:01] And until we can find another way, just by being in the system, I'm not saying that-- sorry, to clarify-- your individual actions... I'll just use an example: I worked at a place that was absolutely [00:58:15] terrible. Racist, sexist, just completely awful. And it was super extractive. But I had to stay, even though I knew that it was not in alignment with [00:58:30] my values, until I could save enough to have the privilege-- and not everyone has the privilege-- to quit my racist and extractive, exploitive job.
[00:58:41] Sam Young: Yeah.
[00:58:42] Stella Gold: But when I was there, it didn't feel good because [00:58:45] I knew that I was receiving money from this company that was paying me to do this work that also received money from investors that were connected to Big Pharma and Big Oil.
[00:58:57] And so what I'm saying is, what we [00:59:00] have to do to survive in the system, it's hard to navigate it ethically. It's hard to navigate it with zero harm, because that's, capitalism is a system where it breeds that.
[00:59:14] Sam Young: [00:59:15] Yup.
[00:59:15] Stella Gold: I don't know.
[00:59:16] Sam Young: Yeah, it's hard. This is something I hear a lot from people, too, about that. It's almost like getting paralyzed by trying to make the right choices, right? Because every choice has some capitalist [00:59:30] consequence to it.
[00:59:31] Stella Gold: Mhm.
[00:59:32] Sam Young: That's really tough. Sometimes, a lot of the times, the pushback, the main pushback that I noticed I get just on my platform in general is that people think that I'm teaching folks to avoid personal responsibility, because I talk so [00:59:45] much about how a lot of this is actually not within your control.
[00:59:49] But to me, I feel like it's so much more empowering to know what's not in your control because then you get a clear grip on what is. And even if that's one or two things, right?
[00:59:59] Stella Gold: A [01:00:00] thousand percent.
[01:00:01] Sam Young: This is what I can control. This is what I can do. And that was what I went through earlier this year, too; I was like, I don't even know if I want to do this platform anymore. Is it wrong for me to try to make money with this platform anymore? Where should I fall in this? Like, how am I [01:00:15] going to do the least amount of harm or do the least amount of capitalism in this?
[01:00:18] It eventually just had to come around to, there's going to be harm done by these big systems that we're forced to operate within, but [01:00:30] it's not your fault for wanting to survive, because the only other option is what? Not surviving.
[01:00:37] Stella Gold: Yeah. That doesn't help anybody.
[01:00:39] Sam Young: That doesn't help anybody. And people say that you can opt out of [01:00:45] capitalism, you just have to go live in the woods and live off the grid. And it's like, so is that really a choice, if in order to opt out, I have to then remove myself from all of civilization and life and community? Is that actually a [01:01:00] choice, then? Because I don't think it is.
[01:01:02] Stella Gold: Yeah, when you talked about like, living off grid in the woods, detached from society, I would even say those people aren't opted out of capitalism. I don't think it's [01:01:15] possible.
[01:01:15] Sam Young: They're not. Because if you're gonna go live off grid, you have to buy supplies, you know? The commerce gets involved.
[01:01:21] Stella Gold: Exactly.
[01:01:22] Sam Young: You know? Yeah, unless you're going full like, Bear Grylls, and you're gonna build everything with your bare hands and heat your [01:01:30] home with a wood fire-- even that, yeah, that's not a solution.
[01:01:32] Stella Gold: And somehow opt out of paying taxes because you faked your own death and maybe now the government doesn't know that you exist anymore. Like to me, I'm just like, how are you..?
[01:01:40] Sam Young: It's not-- it's just not an option. It's not an option.[01:01:45]
[01:01:45] But that's what I always have to tell people, is you are not making the choices that create the systems of harm.
[01:01:53] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:01:53] Sam Young: You are somebody who is being harmed by the systems of harm. Like, we all are. People always want to talk [01:02:00] about, "I'm doing harm by buying from Amazon or whatever. I'm increasing the harm in the world." It's like, you are also being harmed. It's not just a one way thing. You are also being harmed.
[01:02:11] So there is personal responsibility, but I think that [01:02:15] lie of individualism tells us that we have more personal responsibility than we actually do. I think there's actually a lot fewer things that we have control over, and that's really disappointing. And I think once you process that, once you get on the other side of that, then you're like, "Okay, here's what I [01:02:30] can control." And that's how I was able to come back to this and embrace more of the anti-capitalist stuff.
[01:02:35] What I can do is sit up here and tell people why capitalism is bad, right? That's how I got around the shame of it. I was like, this is [01:02:45] my way of... I don't want to say harm reduction, but it's my way of trying to push back against capitalism, even though I'm stuck here and I still have to live within it.
[01:02:56] Stella Gold: Yeah. And that's my menty B, too, from last year. [01:03:00] The deep grief that I had to go through to understand and accept: I can't control-- I can't divest completely. Or not divest, I can't opt out. I can't opt out. I have to accept that this is my situation right [01:03:15] now, and this is the situation for the collective, and focus on understanding that even though I can't control everything, that doesn't mean I can't control nothing. And it's hard.
[01:03:27] I wonder, the people that are [01:03:30] commenting to you and saying these things, and if they are just afraid of the grief that comes with accepting that right now, this is what we're living under, and it's not going to change unless we band [01:03:45] together as a collective. It's not a personal responsibility, it's a collective one. And all of us have to agree that we are mutually fed up.
[01:03:54]
[01:03:54] Sam Young: It's an unfortunate truth that the majority of those types of comments I get come [01:04:00] from white men or male presenting people.
[01:04:03] Stella Gold: That does not even surprise me.
[01:04:05] Sam Young: It's not surprising, but I do still feel that it's unfortunate.
[01:04:09] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:04:09] Sam Young: It's also how I, how I keep the pulse on things, I think, because it's like... [01:04:15] I figure out what to write about by how people are disagreeing with me. That's what inspires me, is disagreement, basically, and it also helps me keep a pulse on like, where we're really at as a collective, where it's like, okay, I can [01:04:30] see just based on the engagement that I get on social media, that there's a lot of people who are growing more and more fed up and more and more on the side of... My favorite people to talk to and just to reach with my work are the people who are like, [01:04:45] "I know that capitalism is bad, but I can't really vocalize why, and I don't feel smart enough to talk about it yet." Those are my people because it's like, okay, that's great. Because your feelings, you should trust those feelings. You don't need to be an academic. You don't need to read Marx. You don't need [01:05:00] to...
[01:05:00] Stella Gold: See, that's what I thought. I was like, "But I don't know enough about Marx!"
[01:05:04] Sam Young: You don't need to fully understand like how the whole in and outs of all of capitalism and how late stage capitalism functions just to know that you see that it's not working and [01:05:15] you think a different solution-- like, that feeling is enough to call yourself anti-capitalist or even just to explore it, right? To dip your toes in.
[01:05:24] When I'm on the internet and I'm reading comments and getting pushback or getting people agreeing with me, yeah, I'm also [01:05:30] going to notice the demographics involved, and it's a lot more of-- the people who are still clinging really tightly to this and still really defending, openly defending capitalism... you're usually white. You're most often a man. A lot of them are like, business owners, or people who have their own thing going [01:05:45] on or whatever.
[01:05:45] It's harder to talk to those people, because they're like, "Capitalism is great. I run my own business and blah, blah, blah," and I'm like, I'm happy for you that you run your own business and that it works for you. But that doesn't mean capitalism is good. That means that you've found something that works [01:06:00] for you within capitalism. That's what that means.
[01:06:04] Stella Gold: The propaganda is so real.
[01:06:08] Sam Young: It's tough. Especially for people like you and me, or people who run their own businesses, or you are a solo entrepreneur, you're a [01:06:15] freelancer or something like that. Those are often the people that have, I think, the strongest feelings about capitalism or anti-capitalism because it's: am I now-- because I've decided to become my own business, essentially-- am I now [01:06:30] capitalism? Have I just become capitalism now, because I've decided to make my own money, basically?
[01:06:39] It's scary, and all of it, just like we said at the beginning, a lot of it just comes back to shame. Like, people are just afraid of saying or [01:06:45] doing like the wrong thing, instead of just trying imperfectly,
[01:06:48] Stella Gold: Yeah. My therapist-- so much is coming up now that I'm like, hearing you talk. So one of the pieces of wisdom my therapist shared with me is like, feelings can be a [01:07:00] compass. And reflecting back on my journey from being so afraid to claim anti-capitalism as a value of mine, I had the feelings there. I just couldn't find the words. And I [01:07:15] felt shame that I wasn't an expert because I saw that most anti-capitalists at the time, in my sphere, were these like, really well-educated, super fluent in Lenin and [01:07:30] Marx, and identified as communists. And I just... propaganda-wise was told that was bad.
[01:07:40] I was really confused and disoriented for quite some [01:07:45] time before I finally said, you know what, just because anti-capitalism is a value of mine, I don't need to be an expert. I can trust my feelings intuitively and even physically, like looking around me [01:08:00] and seeing people being harmed under capitalism. I just... you can't shy away from that.
[01:08:07] Sam Young: Right.
[01:08:07] Stella Gold: You can, because I did for a while without knowing, like looking the other way, not understanding, and then finally looking around and being [01:08:15] like,
[01:08:16] Sam Young: And it's like what you said, like the propaganda and all that, it is by design, right? Like it's all by design. It's designed to keep you from questioning capitalism. On purpose, we're going to make it seem like it's complicated or [01:08:30] now you have to be a communist. That's what I hear. I'm like, "Oh, I'm anti-capitalist." It's either, "Oh, so you're a socialist?" or "You're a communist?" I'm like, I didn't say that. I just said that I don't like capitalism.
[01:08:44] And [01:08:45] I just saw that, too, as this academic type of barrier. And I was like, "Oh, this has to be by design." It's just like the ways that financial literacy is gatekept from people.
[01:08:55] Stella Gold: Yep.
[01:08:55] Sam Young: It has to be by design. And so I'm trying to, yeah, just talk about [01:09:00] it in ways that are more accessible. I had to do this scary thing, too, where I changed my Instagram name thing to say " anti-capitalist astrologer" and I was like, whoa, like... I am saying that. It is like, there now. It's like the first thing people see now when they like come to my page. Like, [01:09:15] that was scary for even for me.
[01:09:17] Stella Gold: Hey, celebrating you though. We need more of that.
[01:09:21] Sam Young: Yeah, and that's part of it, too. I've even had people talk to me about, "I don't know if anti-capitalism is even how I feel, because that still centers [01:09:30] capitalism as the thing that we're against."
[01:09:32] Stella Gold: I can relate to that.
[01:09:33] Sam Young: We just have to stop being worried about what we're going to call it. Stop being worried about sounding right or saying the right thing, saying the wrong thing. I've heard people call it "post-capitalism". One [01:09:45] of my friends, Kelsey Tortorice, she calls it "exo-capitalism," which I really like, cause it's like outside of, or just-- yeah, something that is outside of it. And all of those things work.
[01:09:57] Stella Gold: Interesting.
[01:09:58] Sam Young: All of those things work. I think [01:10:00] part of, like you mentioned, capitalism and white supremacy are besties, and one of the things that white supremacy really values is the written word, right? Or like, things that can be datafied and codified and written down and recorded and all of [01:10:15] these things.
[01:10:15] Stella Gold: And it's in a box.
[01:10:17] Sam Young: It's labeled and you can cite your sources and you can say, "I learned from this teacher who learned from this teacher," and that's what validifies your knowledge. And what I'm trying to get people to do is be like, yeah, your feelings and your experiences under [01:10:30] capitalism are enough to qualify you as anti-capitalist, post-capitalist, whatever it is, capitalism critical, your feelings and your experiences are-- those are enough. You don't need to know smart words. You don't need to read long books. Your experiences [01:10:45] are what qualify you.
[01:10:47] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:10:47] Sam Young: Pretty much everybody I know, I'm pretty sure if I ask them, has a negative experience of capitalism, or of one of the systemic oppressions that result from capitalism. Like, everybody's got a negative experience from it. So that's enough to start on.
[01:10:59] Stella Gold: Ask [01:11:00] the questions.
[01:11:01] Sam Young: Yeah. Or just say, "This feels bad." Just say that. Like, "I don't like this. I think we should do something else." Say that.
[01:11:09] A lot of times too. There's a lot of pushback in terms of, "Well then what's your [01:11:15] solution?" People are always like, "If capitalism's so bad, then what do you propose? What's the thing?" And I'm just like, I don't think it exists yet. Whatever it is, whatever happens after capitalism, this weird stage of [01:11:30] hyper-capitalism that we are in right now, which like, obviously that is a bubble that has to pop at some point.
[01:11:35] So whatever happens on the other side of that is going to happen. I was like, it's going to happen. So we just need people to just [01:11:45] be able to talk about their feelings more, right? And to be able to be open about this more and say, "Yeah, I feel this way. Maybe I don't even know why I feel this way about capitalism, but I do, and I don't know what comes next." I would like to see people embracing more of that nuance, of being [01:12:00] like, "I don't know. I don't know what the solution is, but I would love--"
[01:12:03] Stella Gold: Such a disingenuous question, "What do you propose?"
[01:12:07] Sam Young: Yeah. I propose that we maybe think about it together.
[01:12:10] Stella Gold: Yeah. Let's talk. Let's come up with a proposal [01:12:15] together as a collective. Let's do this together, cause I'm not claiming to know everything.
[01:12:21] Sam Young: I don't know what the perfect solution is. I don't think we need to go back to a full barter economy, like it's 2000 [01:12:30] years ago, but I don't know. Yeah, maybe we should dream about this together.
[01:12:35] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:12:36] Sam Young: It's the collective dreaming, too, that needs to happen. What do we want after capitalism? We know why we don't like it. We know why we're [01:12:45] anti, but what do we want?
[01:12:46] Stella Gold: What do we want? Yeah. Oof. I love that. I love that question.
[01:12:52] Sam Young: What do we want? And I think there's a lot to be said for not positioning yourself as [01:13:00] anti something, but for me, that's just what works. It works for me. I get really riled up when I disagree with something, so I was like, it works to frame myself as anti-capitalist because this is a thing that pisses me off.
[01:13:13] Stella Gold: I'm here for it. [01:13:15] I'm here for it. Yeah. Oh, I'm loving this conversation, by the way.
[01:13:20] Sam Young: Me too.
Does Wealth = Capitalism?
[01:13:22] Sam Young: I guess there was only one more thing that I just wanted to ask you, and this is probably something you've gotten a [01:13:30] lot throughout your time with My Gold Standard, but: how do you view or look at the idea of wealth in capitalism? Especially now, like with your renewed feelings about like, anti-capitalism and things like that, and you [01:13:45] being a wealth coach for people, what does wealth mean to you under capitalism? Have you struggled with that idea since this like shift that you've gone through?
[01:13:53] Stella Gold: Yeah, so I definitely have struggled with the word wealth [01:14:00] for a long time, because I associated it with hoarding resources. I associated the word "wealth" with who were the wealthy? The wealthy were the 1%, and I [01:14:15] don't like that.
[01:14:17] However, over the past couple of years, as I've embraced my own decolonial journey, re-indigenizing to my ancestral lineage, and trying to [01:14:30] tap into that wisdom, specifically my Philippine ancestry, it has shifted. Wealth is-- to me, so I'm not speaking for other people, but wealth to me is that you [01:14:45] have enough, like... you just have enough. You have enough to not only have your basic needs met, but you have enough to thrive. You have enough to support yourself. You have enough to rest. You [01:15:00] have enough to retire.
[01:15:02] Even the idea of generational wealth, I held so much ick towards that, because I was like, why does generational wealth have to exist if we all have our needs met? I think generational [01:15:15] wealth can be so beautiful as a means to just ripple the wealth. Maybe the person that inherits it doesn't need it, but maybe in this system, at least, if we're still living under [01:15:30] capitalism, it can be rippled into communities, folks, individuals that do need that support. And we can, slowly but surely, everyone to have enough. And also, wealth isn't [01:15:45] just about money. It's about having the time.
[01:15:49] Sam Young: Time's a big plus. Yeah.
[01:15:51] Stella Gold: It's about time. It's spiritual wealth. I've really decentered money in my definition of wealth. [01:16:00] However, on the other side of things, I've been a part of a wealth redistribution group, and it's been hard for me because I absolutely love it, from the lens of us [01:16:15] coming together to give and receive in this micro economy that we've created. And we have enough to give $25 a month each or $50 a month each, like we get to collectively decide. But there are times [01:16:30] that I even think about it from a group-- and we've had these discussions too-- it's like, do we have wealth though?
[01:16:37] Sam Young: Right.
[01:16:38] Stella Gold: Do we have excess if we are all struggling to have our needs met [01:16:45] under the system? Are we redistributing wealth? And I think we had to realize that wealth has to also exist outside of money. So we redistribute. Sometimes we have time, sometimes we have skill. Skillshare is a big one. Because I [01:17:00] think that's another side of things that I get tripped up on, is all of these people being so generous and giving and doing these mutual aid organizing, it's usually people that do not have excess.
[01:17:14] Sam Young: [01:17:15] Always. Yeah.
[01:17:15] Stella Gold: And that frustrates me.
[01:17:16] Sam Young: Yeah. The joke of like, your poor friends are always passing around the same $30.
[01:17:21] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:17:21] Sam Young: That's really tough. I think, because it's like you said, like when the individualism part of capitalism comes in and somebody really internalizes that belief that [01:17:30] "I always need more" or "I just want more and I should be able to work hard to have it, and I should have as much excess as I want," essentially.
[01:17:37] That idea sounds nice, but what happens when like, people have way more than they need and then there's also people who don't even [01:17:45] have enough, like you're saying.
[01:17:47] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:17:47] Sam Young: And that type of wealth, that 'just enough'. I've heard this a lot more recently. I like that this sentiment is coming around more, a lot of people saying like, the opposite of scarcity isn't abundance. It's just having enough. [01:18:00] It's just having what you need. Which is really the goal. And I think the people who are in pursuit of more than they need, it's probably like you said. There's probably a lack of some sort of fulfillment somewhere else. Cause money's only one form of wealth. [01:18:15]
[01:18:15] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:18:15] Sam Young: That's always what I've considered too, is like, why the simps for capitalism who are trying to survive, a lot of them, they're worried that one day they won't have enough. Or they're worried that they're not going to have enough time. They're doing this so that they can have more time, right?
[01:18:28] Everybody's trying to accumulate [01:18:30] different types of wealth. I like that you said that too, cause I've really been meditating on that enoughness lately too, like trying to detach it from how much money is in my bank account. Like last night, I was laying in bed. And right before bed, I was like, "I feel wealthy." I'm going to bed and I'm warm and [01:18:45] safe. I'm next to somebody who loves me. My child's asleep in his room in the next room. There's food in my fridge. There's gas in my tank. Bills are mostly paid. I was like, this is really it. This is really wealth. This is what everybody wants. [01:19:00] Like at the end of the day, you just want to go to bed somewhere warm and safe where you're loved and cared for.
[01:19:05] And it's actually the fact that so many people can't do that is the problem. Like just that "baseline wealth" type of wealth is so hard to, [01:19:15] for a lot of people, to even reach as a baseline.
[01:19:17] Stella Gold: Yeah. So still processing that one. And I'm sure that my definition will evolve as my journey to embracing [01:19:30] anti-capitalism has evolved as well. I think for people, they don't even ask, what does it mean to have enough for yourself? And then, thinking outside of the individual, what does it mean for the community to have enough? Just asking [01:19:45] that simple question.
[01:19:46] And then you realize, when you start adding things up. If you want to talk about the money side of things, I remember doing the math, and I'm like, I don't even have to be a millionaire. And by the way, being a millionaire is [01:20:00] not...
[01:20:00] Sam Young: I don't think it's that big of a deal, really.
[01:20:01] Stella Gold: It's not really that bad, comparatively to billionaires! Yeah, being a millionaire is really... I'm not [laughs].
[01:20:07] Sam Young: Some people say that "Oh, millionaires are also unethical." I'm like, honestly...
[01:20:14] Stella Gold: It's a no [01:20:15] for me.
[01:20:15] Sam Young: On the grand scale, it, for some people, can be quite easy to make a million dollars and you don't have to be a bad person to do it. You don't have to exploit a bunch of labor in order to make a million dollars.
[01:20:26] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:20:27] Sam Young: I used to feel the same way too. I was like, "Oh, I could probably like, make a million [01:20:30] dollars a year. I'd be happy with that." When I actually crunched the numbers, I think the number I came up with was like somewhere in the 300,000 range.
[01:20:36] Stella Gold: Me too! I was like, "Oh."
[01:20:38] Sam Young: That would be probably fine. Yeah.
[01:20:40] Stella Gold: Yeah, to have enough for myself, my community, and to [01:20:45] even, if I do have kids, ripple that into their lives, too.
[01:20:49] Sam Young: Yeah, like I'd probably add a bit more now that I have a kid, but it's like, it would be plenty.
[01:20:54] Stella Gold: Oh my gosh. My mind was blown. I was like, I don't even have to have-- to me, I just thought [01:21:00] that was really telling that I didn't even know what having enough meant to me.
[01:21:06] Sam Young: That is the fun part of-- I like the number side too. I like to do that with people sometimes. I'm like, you should really just try to calculate the price of your dream life, because you'll be shocked at how low it [01:21:15] is.
[01:21:15] Stella Gold: [laughs]
[01:21:16] Sam Young: Unless you're really talking about, I want to take a private jet everywhere I fly. Yeah, you might need more than that, but like most of the time, like your dream life is not that expensive.
[01:21:27] Stella Gold: Yeah. Yeah. [01:21:30] Oh my gosh. Yeah. Wow.
[01:21:32] Sam Young: I like this idea that wealth is enough. I literally read this book that was called Anti-Capitalism: A Beginner's Guide.
[01:21:40] Stella Gold: I'm definitely writing that down.
[01:21:42] Sam Young: It's a good book. It was still honestly a bit [01:21:45] dense. Like I had to stop and look up stuff. A lot of the time it would take me a while to get through some chapters just because I needed more like, historical context, but something that the author talks about in there is the opposite of this-- or maybe not the opposite, but a different [01:22:00] form of this profit economy, which is really what capitalism is, like it functions on profit and a surplus. The alternative to that is called subsistence, which like, it sounds like not enough, but it's actually just the act of having enough, right? That's what people did [01:22:15] before we were selling our time and our labor.
[01:22:17] Like the way back, when people just lived on their farms and were mostly self-sufficient, it was like, you worked until you had enough, you worked until the work was done. And then you spent the rest of the day, how you [01:22:30] envision.
[01:22:30] And even now, for people like us, a lot of millennials, they're like, "That sounds like, so wealthy," right? Just like "I want to wake up, work the farm, and then be done and just have enough," and it's like, yeah. That's possible.
[01:22:42] And you don't have to be wealthy to do that. You don't have to be a millionaire [01:22:45] to to have enough, even if that means enough time, like you're saying, like all these different types of wealth, It's not as expensive as people think. And there's this idea that to have time, you need to have money, because obviously [01:23:00] capitalism exploits our time as well as our money.
[01:23:02] But, there's ways to access that feeling of wealth, especially through time, without having to... You don't have to be rich to have time. [01:23:15]
[01:23:15] Stella Gold: You know what you said about how we're talking about feelings, like trusting our feelings?
[01:23:20] Sam Young: Yeah.
[01:23:21] Stella Gold: I think wealth can be a feeling too.
[01:23:23] Sam Young: Oh yeah.
[01:23:24] Stella Gold: So when there is the lack; when you're feeling lack, when you're feeling oppressed, when you're [01:23:30] feeling that scarcity, experiencing that scarcity and feeling depleted, exhausted, extracted from, it's like, "Oh, I don't feel wealthy."
[01:23:41] So now, see, I'm like live processing this right now. I'm like... [01:23:45] Cause I, I will admit I haven't felt wealthy. I've had days where I haven't felt wealthy, and that's because I am experiencing fluctuations in my financial circumstances right now. I don't want to fully say [01:24:00] that I am experiencing immense scarcity right now because I still have privilege. I'm living off of savings, but my business is in a fluctuation and my partner is also having his own [01:24:15] fluctuation of financial security.
[01:24:17] The economy right now is in this restrictive mode, and I've talked to a lot of other entrepreneurs that are experiencing this right now. I'm also looking for [01:24:30] work and other jobs to supplement while I navigate this shift, and I am living at my partner's childhood home. We can't afford to have our own place yet, [01:24:45] and I think that it's great that I have this place to wait out the financial storm while I figure out my next move, but it does come with give and take. Like, I am living in housing [01:25:00] where like my identity isn't being honored or respected, being misgendered all the time, and there's still the cishet patriarchy that is also very prevalent in capitalism.
[01:25:11] And that sucks, but I'm also-- and I was [01:25:15] expressing to my partner last night in bed, I was like, "I don't feel wealthy." I don't feel wealthy at all. I feel spiritually, emotionally, so depleted because I've been so focused on how do I [01:25:30] survive?
[01:25:30] Sam Young: Right.
[01:25:31] Stella Gold: How do I survive capitalism right now? And even trying to survive can take a lot out of you. I think I've been going through a bit of a healing process with this spiritual injury, I'll just [01:25:45] call it a spiritual injury, of deconditioning from capitalism. It's rough. And now that I'm like thinking about wealth as a feeling, and having that be like my North Star, wealth as a feeling [01:26:00] doesn't always have to result in being financially rich, right? It can be rich with love, rich with community. Community of wealth is really such a game changer. Having that support and [01:26:15] knowing that you're not alone. And in that way, I do feel very wealthy.
[01:26:19] And so I have to remind myself, maybe wealth Is not coming to me in the form of money right now, and that's okay. It's not, but it's [01:26:30] not just on me to figure that out. It's by design. A lot of people are feeling this and experiencing this right now, but wealth as a feeling. When I connect it to my feelings, I think about my community and I just feel the most [01:26:45] wealthy.
[01:26:45] Sam Young: Yeah.
[01:26:46] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:26:47] Sam Young: It's really powerful. My godmother has a master's in anthropology, and for her master's thesis, she did a study using her very own mom's group that she formed when her kids were small [01:27:00] and her whole thesis was about how community renders money obsolete.
[01:27:06] Stella Gold: Ooh.
[01:27:07] Sam Young: Yeah. Basically the more community support you have, the less money you actually need, which I found very interesting. And [01:27:15] they've always lived that way too. Like they've always just been people who live pretty modestly. Like, they work. My godfather's a unionized welder. So he works on jobs, but it can be feast or famine sometimes. They've always just centered that [01:27:30] community.
[01:27:30] That was like 15 years ago that she did that thesis and they really live that way. And it's something I always think about too, is yeah, really, the more community you have, the less money becomes even relevant sometimes.
[01:27:43] Stella Gold: Oooh.
[01:27:43] Sam Young: There's certain things, right? Like [01:27:45] we all have to pay rent. There's things that money is required for, but it's like you said, like skill shares, where normally, if you would pay somebody to come fix something, you have a friend come fix it for free and you feed them dinner. And like that in itself is just such a [01:28:00] wealth of things, right? It's I fed my friend, I got to see my friend, they fixed this thing for me, like everybody wins.
[01:28:06] And it can really be that simple too. I think that's the last thing I'll say to the people who are still nervous, about maybe "coming out" as an anti-capitalist: you [01:28:15] are already doing probably a lot of anti-capitalist things in your life, and every time that you involve your friends, it doesn't have to be this thing where we all live on a farm and kumbaya all the time. It doesn't have to be that, but it can be small things, [01:28:30] where instead of hiring, instead of calling an Uber, maybe a friend can give me a ride. Really small stuff.
[01:28:36] I think that results in a lot more feelings of wealth, like you're talking about. It's that feeling. Cause now that you're saying it too, I think about, I don't actually [01:28:45] feel wealthy when I spend money, even though I love spending money. Like I love to do that. It's very fun. It gives me a lot of dopamine, but like... I love to do it, but doing the act of spending money is not actually what makes me feel wealthy.
[01:28:58] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:28:59] Sam Young: That's very [01:29:00] interesting.
[01:29:01] Stella Gold: Oof. Definitely.
[01:29:02] Sam Young: It's a lot to think about.
[01:29:03] Stella Gold: I know we're both like, we're sitting here like looking around, like yeah, gotta noodle on that one.
[01:29:08] Sam Young: Yeah. . Yeah. Spending money doesn't actually make me feel wealthy, even though it is fun.
[01:29:13] Stella Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. [01:29:15] I can relate. Just hard relate.
[01:29:17] Sam Young: Yeah.
Closing Out
[01:29:18] Stella Gold: This conversation is a conversation that I hope people will be inspired to continue having and also asking the questions and following their feelings and getting [01:29:30] curious. So I just really am grateful to be sitting here with you. This is wealth, to me as well.
[01:29:37] Sam Young: Yeah.
[01:29:38] Stella Gold: And for folks that want to continue the conversation with me, I'd love to stay [01:29:45] connected. You can find me on my Instagram, My Gold Standard, and my website, MyGoldStandard.co. I do a lot of writing about this on my newsletter as [01:30:00] well, which you can sign up when you get to my website. That is one of my favorite resources that I have to offer to community, and in there you'll find ways to work with me as well that will scale from free ways to work [01:30:15] with me, free workshops, free panel discussions, free conversations, maybe even other resources, such as linking this podcast or podcasts like this on that newsletter.
[01:30:28] If you [01:30:30] are looking for ways to work on your financial literacy journey and your wealth journey, I do a blend of the both: on the logic side, we do tackle the financial literacy things, [01:30:45] where I can give you a wealth road map, a plan to where you get to figure out what is having enough for you and what those numbers look like. You can do that through my one on one coaching. I might have some group offerings in the future, [01:31:00] so best way to stay in the know with that is to connect with me on my newsletter or my Instagram.
[01:31:08] Sam Young: Yes. I highly recommend Stella's newsletter. I love reading it.
[01:31:13] Stella Gold: Thank you. I'm so happy you're on [01:31:15] there. You were in the inspiration of my last newsletter.
[01:31:17] Sam Young: I know, that was so fun. I wasn't even expecting that. And I was just reading it and I was like, "Oh my God, that's me."
[01:31:21] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:31:23] Sam Young: So thank you for doing this. And thank you for being willing to share so much. I really do echo what you said. I hope that [01:31:30] people want to continue these conversations and just ask themselves these questions too, especially that big question: what does wealth actually feel like to you? I think that's a really good question to start asking ourselves. Outside of money, of course, what does wealth really feel like?[01:31:45]
[01:31:45] Stella Gold: Yeah.
[01:31:46]
Outro/Community Features
[01:31:49] Sam Young: Wow. What a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and experience Stella is. I had such a wonderful [01:32:00] time talking to them and learning more about their story and I hope you did too. And I hope that you come away from this episode thinking a lot about what wealth feels like to you, and what different types of wealth feel like to [01:32:15] you and what types of wealth you experience on a regular basis?
[01:32:20] I've been really sitting lately with the idea of everyone having enough. And that sounds simple. And it should be simple. But in this [01:32:30] world it's complicated, and everyone doesn't have enough.
[01:32:33] There's nothing wrong with desiring a well-resourced life. I believe we all deserve to have our needs met. Deserving is really a moot point, when it comes to needs. If everyone doesn't have their needs met, [01:32:45] then it's not about deserving. It's not about earning the right to live. It's about meeting people's needs. Allowing life to continue on, to flourish.
[01:32:55] Really gorgeous conversation, so much to take away from that. And [01:33:00] speaking of wealth, I want to move on to the last part of our podcast here on this first episode, which is the section I want to include where I share and shout out different community members and [01:33:15] cultivate different types of wealth. the wealth of visibility, the wealth of sharing one's platform, the wealth of using one's voice to uplift others.
[01:33:24] So this episode, I want to feature a zine, winter solstice [01:33:30] zine, by Sara over at Folkweaver. I was so heartened by this, when Sara sent this to me and asked if I wanted to promote it. What Sara does at Folkweaver is [01:33:45] weaving stories of connection, creation, reclaiming power, and just really re-imagining society that is actually designed for collective thriving. Just like I was talking about, a society where everyone's basic needs are met and that's a [01:34:00] non-negotiable. Sara does a great job of visioning that type of future through story.
[01:34:06] Her winter solstice zine is actually a calendar zine, so it goes from the winter solstice all the way through the next three months, the entire winter [01:34:15] season, here in the Northern hemisphere, at least, and the zine is called Germinating Dreams of Community, which I love.
[01:34:21] Of course, winter is a time for retreat, for going underground, for germinating, right? For hibernating, for planting [01:34:30] seeds and allowing them to take root in the darkness. And this zine has recipes, which I think is really cool, and it's also just filled with daily prompts that are going to help you [01:34:45] get really clear on the vision for the community that you want to build and the world that you want to live in, and the vision that you have for connection and co-creation in the future, post-capitalism.
[01:34:56] So pre-orders are available [01:35:00] now for the winter zine, you can get a digital or a physical copy, I believe, so don't miss out. It is an incredible resource. It's really well done. It's beautiful to look at. Lesley Numbers did the artwork for it, for the [01:35:15] zine, and it's just gorgeous. I think everybody should have this as a resource, especially right now in the times that we're in, where everybody is really urging each other to reach out, to build community, but if you don't know how, or you don't know where to start, or you don't even really know what that word means [01:35:30] to you at this point, "community" can get tossed around so much that it can start to feel nebulous. This zine is a great resource to help you get back to a solid definition of community for yourself, so that you can begin-- or so that you can continue building it [01:35:45] and working towards that vision.
[01:35:47] So shout it to you, Sara. Go follow her at Folkweaver over on Substack, on Instagram. Check out her website, Folkweaver.com. That's where you can pre-order the zine. And thank you, Sara, for [01:36:00] reaching out to me and sharing this with me. Made me feel very wealthy to be able to not only have this resource, but also to be able to share it with you all.
[01:36:10] That's a wrap on our very first episode of The Cosmic Co-Op. Thank you so [01:36:15] much for listening. I am Sam, AKA The Financial Witch, signing off, and I will see you on the new moon in Sagittarius, which is November 30th.
[01:36:26] Until then, take care of each other.